From the light of a different sun

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cmfireflies
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by cmfireflies » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:44 am

Pissball wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Do you folks "justify" Eli because she is a child, or because she is a vampire?
Both, the fact that Eli is a kid and a vampire means that it's ok for her to be selfish to survive. More importantly, nobody's existence requires justification. I take issue with the fact that people are saying that Eli should sacrifice herself so that others may live. But why should anyone expect a child to die so that they may live? Isn't that a horrible position to take?
Pissball wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:36 pm
There's a thread asking if Eli is "toxic" ... In this case, what will be your reaction after reading Eli asking "Do want to become like me" showing Oskar a needle? and the pair escaping to live "free" and together in trains and in with the company of bums, criminals, creeps, and also good but marginalized people.
Well, the other part of the story is what Oskar made leave with Eli. Given that you don't subscribe to the theory that Eli was manipulative all along, it's undisputed that Eli actually cares about Oskar and in fact saves his life. That's incompatible with purposefully harming Oskar. I'm sure that Eli didn't infect Oskar out of malice, it's the only way for them to be together. To fault Eli for that would be like faulting Romeo and Juliet for taking poison and saying: Romeo was responsible for Juliet's death, technically correct, but not in the spirit of the story.

Of course, Eli didn't have to leave with Oskar. In fact, it'll be heroic of Eli to sacrifice her own happiness in order to not curse Oskar with the infection, but is it fair to expect it from her? After centuries of being alone and then finding a friend, isn't it too much to ask for Eli to make the quote unquote responsible decision? Also, doesn't Oskar's acceptance of Eli count for anything? Why should it be Eli's responsibility to make the right choice? It may be bleak, but it's not Eli's fault. She didn't ask to be a vampire, and she didn't do anything in the story out of malice.
"When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it."

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PeteMork
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by PeteMork » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:02 pm

cmfireflies wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:44 am
Pissball wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:36 pm
Do you folks "justify" Eli because she is a child, or because she is a vampire?
Both, the fact that Eli is a kid and a vampire means that it's ok for her to be selfish to survive. More importantly, nobody's existence requires justification. I take issue with the fact that people are saying that Eli should sacrifice herself so that others may live. But why should anyone expect a child to die so that they may live? Isn't that a horrible position to take?
Pissball wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:36 pm
There's a thread asking if Eli is "toxic" ... In this case, what will be your reaction after reading Eli asking "Do want to become like me" showing Oskar a needle? and the pair escaping to live "free" and together in trains and in with the company of bums, criminals, creeps, and also good but marginalized people.
Well, the other part of the story is what Oskar made leave with Eli. Given that you don't subscribe to the theory that Eli was manipulative all along, it's undisputed that Eli actually cares about Oskar and in fact saves his life. That's incompatible with purposefully harming Oskar. I'm sure that Eli didn't infect Oskar out of malice, it's the only way for them to be together. To fault Eli for that would be like faulting Romeo and Juliet for taking poison and saying: Romeo was responsible for Juliet's death, technically correct, but not in the spirit of the story.

Of course, Eli didn't have to leave with Oskar. In fact, it'll be heroic of Eli to sacrifice her own happiness in order to not curse Oskar with the infection, but is it fair to expect it from her? After centuries of being alone and then finding a friend, isn't it too much to ask for Eli to make the quote unquote responsible decision? Also, doesn't Oskar's acceptance of Eli count for anything? Why should it be Eli's responsibility to make the right choice? It may be bleak, but it's not Eli's fault. She didn't ask to be a vampire, and she didn't do anything in the story out of malice.
Clearly and concisely presented. That last line is the kicker, and why most of us love her so dearly. But then...there is Eli's victims' point of view; a view not quite as objective as this one, I suspect. :(
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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dongregg
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by dongregg » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:04 pm

Pissball, this is one the best posts that I have read here, and that's saying a lot because this is a forum of members with brains and hearts.
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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sauvin
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by sauvin » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 am

Image
Fais tomber les barrières entre nous qui sommes tous des frères

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PeteMork
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by PeteMork » Tue Mar 24, 2020 2:25 pm

sauvin wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:47 am
Image
Nice sort of place for Eli to 'hang out' with the girls. :) Not sure an outnumbered Oskar would like it however.
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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sauvin
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by sauvin » Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:00 am

Image
Fais tomber les barrières entre nous qui sommes tous des frères

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PeteMork
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by PeteMork » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:47 pm

sauvin wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:00 am
Image
What a dump! She should hire a desperate interior decorator and kill two birds with one stone.
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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dongregg
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by dongregg » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:19 am

Two birds with one stone! :D :D :D
“For drama to deepen, we must see the loneliness of the monster and the cunning of the innocent.”

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sauvin
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by sauvin » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:35 am

Yeah. That "dump" is the Azure Pool in Pripyat, a swimming pool that's slowly passing into the ages.

This "stay at home" thing really is going to cramp my style. Not a lot, mind, I'm a natural recluse, but once every two or three weeks I'd take a novel or a tablet along and spend a couple of hours slowly noshing on a really good meal at a restaurant, and once every two or three months I might head off to the bookstore (about an hour from where I live) to see what's new or maybe go blow half a week's pay to see a new movie on the Big Screen.

Can't do that kind of thing any more, and while some parts of the world are reporting downtrends in new cases, most of the rest are still reporting uptrends, often sharp ones. I'm far from confident the matter is being handled well in my country and in my province, so I'm fully expecting that these "stay at home" orders will be extended - we may well end up following the Parisian model where outdoor time is virtually eliminated and minister's permits are needed for trips to the grocery store, pharmacy or work.

I've read way too much apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction and watched way too many movies inspired by them, so my take on what's happening may be a bit skewed, but the "what if...?" scenario has all of us essentially imprisoned in our respective domiciles with reprieves granted only for work detail. If this were to go on for a few years, some of the swimming pools right here in the heart of the northern American continent won't be in markedly better condition.

What's a poor little bloodsucking cutie to do when she's just not able to do the "home invasion" thing?
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PeteMork
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Re: From the light of a different sun

Post by PeteMork » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:49 pm

sauvin wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:35 am

...What's a poor little bloodsucking cutie to do when she's just not able to do the "home invasion" thing?
Doesn't Amazon deliver 'most anything these days? ;)

(And there's always the delivery guy as a last resort.)
We never stop reading, although every book comes to an end, just as we never stop living, although death is certain. (Roberto Bolaño)

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