Movie Eli ambiguity

[jetboy]

So if Eli does not view himself as a vampire, how then to interpret his statement that he is not a girl?

As a monster. As a killer of humans, humans that she also desperately needs companionship from. Movie Eli is very feminine and girlish in my opinion and she wishes to be a normal girl and have a normal life with a normal boyfriend but she carries this deep, deep shame, and rightfully so if shes both a murderer and a person with a heart and a conscience.

[dongregg]

So if Eli does not view himself as a vampire, how then to interpret his statement that he is not a girl?

As a monster. As a killer of humans, humans that she also desperately needs companionship from. Movie Eli is very feminine and girlish in my opinion and she wishes to be a normal girl and have a normal life with a normal boyfriend but she carries this deep, deep shame, and rightfully so if she's both a murderer and a person with a heart and a conscience.

Beautifully put.

[Marlow]

The most obvious unambiguous indication of Eli's being a boy is his name. Oskar reacts with incredulity on the jungle gym when Eli tells him his name and looks pained when Oskar reacts the way he does.

One aspect of horror is the unconscious elements are symbolically presented. Castration is related to gender differentiation at an infantile level of cognition.

P.S. I promise to write my interpretation of the "You Can Wear My Mother's Dress" scene soon. One key element of the scene is the symbolic transfer of a boy's desired sexual union with his mother as the object to another without the threat of being punished for displacing the father. Condensation is a mechanism of the unconscious process being perceived through the protective filter of the ego and the ambiguous state of Eli's self is the artistic representation of this mechanism. The book is more explicit in dealing with the obverse of castration as a projective punishment for incestuous homosexual desire in the scene(s) of the nobleman's tribute demanded of his subjects. It is implied in various ways in the movie.

Ambiguity allows contradictions to be held in the same symbol. Multiple frames of reference are available for self/other, masculine/feminine, etc. The movie's time limitations allow less narrative specificity but enhances the "inexactness" of visual impressions. A different medium, a different artistic experience.

[metoo]

I don't agree that in the film Eli was presented as unambiguously female. I agree that given Lina's performance, it difficult to see her Eli as anything but a girl. However, given other things that we are shown on the screen, I believe that Tomas wanted to give subtle nods to Eli really having been a boy.

Well, I did write rather unambiguously female. But I think that the examples you give need an instruction manual to be interpreted the way you do. You need to have read the novel. And the peek scene is very brief. You need to stop the movie to actually see what the scene shows. This, of course, isn't possible at a movie theatre, the means of presentation for which the film was made.

That said, I really like that you use male pronouns when referring to Eli. I think you are about the only non-Nordic member of this forum who does.

The most obvious unambiguous indication of Eli's being a boy is his name. Oskar reacts with incredulity on the jungle gym when Eli tells him his name and looks pained when Oskar reacts the way he does.

The name is very uncommon in Sweden, and that's what I, as a Swede, see in Oskar's incredulity. He had never heard it before.

[Cthulhuthanos]

Ptahhotep, it's interesting to see one who agrees with me on the subject matter. I do feel that this forum does benefit from having native Swedish speakers to help clarify things that may have been lost in translation. I heard that originally Tomas Alfredson was going to explore the idea of Eli being a male. I have yet to know why the concept was officially cut, but I would like to assume that the filmmaker had the same sense of allowing the film to play off of suggestions and provide an ambiguous nature to the film as a whole. I will read the translated version of the book, however, I still somewhat maintain the idea that the movie and book have two different "canons" per say. Although that is a personal interpretation and not a fact.

[Drakeule]

I still somewhat maintain the idea that the movie and book have two different "canons" per say.

You will be surprised. The movie is very faithful to the book. Just get ready for more characters and more to the story: It will be dark, but that's the point.

[Cthulhuthanos]

I will probably find out, yes. I feel this situation similar the Lord Of the Rings trilogy. The book and the movie have two different canons despite one being very similar (for the most part) to the other.

[dongregg]

I will read the translated version of the book, however, I still somewhat maintain the idea that the movie and book have two different "canons" per say. Although that is a personal interpretation and not a fact.

That is my thought, too, that we may see the film, the novel, and the play as standalone works of art; and, along with the movie Let Me In, we may judge the works on their own merits. And use parts of any of them to create fan-fiction worlds that delight us and amuse our friends.

It seemeth me the opposite view is harsh -- that we be not permitted to do so, but must reconcile the different moods (and in many cases different details) to push and pull these works into a single, seemingly seamless whole.

Forgive the departure from my usual down-to-earth verbiage; I'm reading a longish Shakespeare play, parts of which I want to work into a fan fiction I'm fiddling with wherein our little vampire pals make their stage debut.

[Wolfchild]

I don't agree that in the film Eli was presented as unambiguously female. I agree that given Lina's performance, it difficult to see her Eli as anything but a girl. However, given other things that we are shown on the screen, I believe that Tomas wanted to give subtle nods to Eli really having been a boy.

Well, I did write rather unambiguously female. But I think that the examples you give need an instruction manual to be interpreted the way you do. You need to have read the novel. And the peek scene is very brief. You need to stop the movie to actually see what the scene shows. This, of course, isn't possible at a movie theatre, the means of presentation for which the film was made.

This is not true. On my first viewing, I wondered why Eli would have a strange mark on the front of her pubis and no sign of a labia. I wasn't even watching it in a cinema - it was on a 48" television screen. I didn't put it together then that Eli could have been a boy, but I have seen people claim that they realized immediately that Eli was a boy when seeing that scene.

I think that Lina's performance makes it all too easy to overlook the hints that Eli is male, but the hints are definitely there on the screen.

And if you need an instruction manual, well... I just wrote one for you.

The most obvious unambiguous indication of Eli's being a boy is his name. Oskar reacts with incredulity on the jungle gym when Eli tells him his name and looks pained when Oskar reacts the way he does.

The name is very uncommon in Sweden, and that's what I, as a Swede, see in Oskar's incredulity. He had never heard it before.

As a non-Swede, it was my interpretation as well that Oskar just found the name strange.

[PeteMork]

...Actually, I disagree that this conflict is not present in the film. Although Oskar says he doesn't care if Eli is not a girl in the candy scene, we are given hints that he is at least curious about Eli as a girlfriend. When Eli comes in his window and then tells him not to look, we get a close-up shot of Oskar's face where we can see his eyes moving underneath his eyelids. He is trying unsuccessfully to sneak a peak at Eli through the slits of his eyelids. Also, it is this same sexual curiosity that motivates Oskar to peek at Eli while he is dressing. In both the film and the novel, Oskar has imagined a boyfriend/girlfriend with Eli up until the reveal scene. In the film, the peek scene lets Oskar know that Eli is not a girl (and lets us know that Oskar knows). Despite this knowledge, Oskar is unwavering in his attitude towards Eli. So while this conflict for Oskar is not identical to the one in the novel, it is very similar, and ultimately develops the character in the same way.

This is actually the best explanation I have seen yet for the peek scene being in the film at all. It has the ring of truth to it, IMO; a perfect balancing act of ambiguity by JAL and TA.