Eli Casting

[TΛPETRVE]

The broadest range of expressions is worthless if the expressions themselves are not convincing. And yes, I am jaded. Because I'm faced with our progenies of modern acting school on an almost daily base and it makes me sick to see the same faceless, formulaic performances on pretty much every second actor. And that's actually why I keep away from so many discussions here - I see myself mostly unable to argue appropriately, because my studies have harneded my resentment against certain standards that I can and will not accept.

[PeteMork]

Not to pick on the last post specifically but I laugh a little bit when someone mentions how "subtle" or "simply deep" Lina is because I consider it just bad acting. I don't think she actually knew how to play some of these scenes well and her lack of acting is being read as purposeful. Her eyes and expressions derive from confusion to me and that was reinforced when I watched a few interviews and award clips where she acts just as quiet and awkward. I know that's heresy here and I'm just a guy who's seen a lot of movies but she doesn't inspire confidence to me. If she had a longer stretch of acting experience or at least one prior piece of film we could reference I could prove myself wrong (I'd like to) but we don't have that.

“Quiet and awkward?” Awkward maybe, but quiet? Check out the Dansa i Falun Dans show 2006 on Youtube featuring Lina: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKWspizcCnc

And for another example of an unknown first-time actress who delivered a magnificent performance at 12 years old (Oscar-nominated), “The Whale Rider’s” Keisha Castle-Hughes is perfect. And I’m certain an awkward interview or two after the show (She was on Jay Leno) wouldn’t have made me question her acting ability in that one. And where is she today?

Using your own criteria, let’s have a more objective, fact-based example of where you really believe her acting and facial expressions derive from confusion or ‘bad acting,’ rather than good acting and/or directing. Remember, no generalizations now.

I believe your original question was related more to which one portrayed the book Eli better; not which one was the worse actress. My agreement with ACL on Chloe being more ‘superficial’ reflected my personal impressions of Reeve’s directing to an American audience in these particular instances, not Chloe’s acting ability, which I consider to be top-notch, as I've said many times before in other threads. TA, working directly with the author, did a better job, IMO, of capturing the essence of Eli. And whether or not it was Lina's acting or TA's directing, book Eli was portrayed more accurately by Lina than by Chloe. Remember, Eli is Swedish, not American, and was conjured up by a full-fledged Swede (JAL himself) -- and the film was directed by another one. The language spoken was also Swedish, and the actors and actresses were Swedish. Wouldn't we naturally expect the more accurate representation of her to be a more reserved Swedish one?

[wolfshadow]

Compare range of facial expressions though as actresses across both films and outside appearances:

http://www.google.com/images?q=lina+leandersson

http://www.google.com/images?q=chloe+moretz

I could bet money that Lina might not have teeth since they've almost never been shown to a camera! But seriously, their personalities are light years apart. An actor's personality plays a huge part of how they are able to adapt for the screen and being a professional or not seems irrelevant to this conversation. To fit a role you need depth as a person so that you can take some of that and project it as necessary. It's not that Lina's performance is inconsistent, it's that it's consistently flat. I don't know who here could say that Chloë did not evoke a larger range of emotion than Lina.

LTROI is a Swedish movie made for a Scandinavian audience. I suspect that "range of emotion" may be impacted by cultural differences between Scandinavia and the US.

Culture aside, with as quiet and subtle as most of this film is, showing too much would kill the overall mood.

Plus I know someone else posted newer pictures of Lina and she definitely has teeth in those.

[a_contemplative_life]

Does she win by default since she's a "reserved" Swedish girl in a Swedish film based on a Swedish book? You're the first person to mention that culture could play into it and I didn't want to say anything hoping it would come out but I'm not sure everyone keeps that in mind.

Unfortunately, this is the only context in which we may judge Lina's acting abilities right now. I would only say that this was the first (and only) Swedish film I've seen, and I thought she fit the mood of the film perfectly. I guess all I can say is that Lina's performance provoked an emotional response in me that I didn't get from LMI and Chloe's performance. Had I only seen LMI, I am quite certain that I would not be discussing it 1-1/2 years after viewing it for the first time. I don't hold myself out as any kind of expert on film-making or the abilities of actors and actresses, but this was my reaction.

[gary13136]

Lina was much closer than Chloe Moretz. But we have to remember that LTROI was a reflection (sort of) of the novel. LMI on the other hand is a reflection (sort of) of the original movie. Lina had the right look. The only major differences would be that the novel Eli was much more aggressive than Lina. But the movie placed more emphasis on the non-violent aspects of the story, so Lina did not have to show the aggressive side of Eli. Chloe Moretz had to show a more aggressive side because LMI was more graphically violent. The movies are both very different and at the same time very similar. In fact it's difficult for me to really compare them, because I see them as more different than similar. Naturally others will take the opposite view, which is OK. LMI is a good movie, it's just a somewhat different movie. At least for me.

But I have to give the nod to Lina.

[gary13136]

Does she win by default since she's a "reserved" Swedish girl in a Swedish film based on a Swedish book? You're the first person to mention that culture could play into it and I didn't want to say anything hoping it would come out but I'm not sure everyone keeps that in mind.

Unfortunately, this is the only context in which we may judge Lina's acting abilities right now. I would only say that this was the first (and only) Swedish film I've seen, and I thought she fit the mood of the film perfectly. I guess all I can say is that Lina's performance provoked an emotional response in me that I didn't get from LMI and Chloe's performance. Had I only seen LMI, I am quite certain that I would not be discussing it 1-1/2 years after viewing it for the first time. I don't hold myself out as any kind of expert on film-making or the abilities of actors and actresses, but this was my reaction.

You've never seen any Swedish movies? Not even by Ingmar Bergman? Since LTROI that's about all I have seen. Not just Swedish; just about anything Scandinavian. May I suggest a somewhat ambiguous Norwegian comedy called "O'Horten". You really shouldn't deprive yourself.

[TΛPETRVE]

My recommendation for O'Horten, too. 'Specially (but 'course not exclusively) thanks to the soundtrack done by John Erik Kaada (Mike Patton's bestestest friend).

[withinfocus]

Using your own criteria, let’s have a more objective, fact-based example of where you really believe her acting and facial expressions derive from confusion or ‘bad acting,’ rather than good acting and/or directing. Remember, no generalizations now.

I thought the stills linked in the Google images results give a pretty good array of situations where her expression is almost exactly the same. She has the tight-lip or the smirk. For specific scenes in the movie though, at your request:

13:04 - 13:07: Some of the first lines she utters in the entire film about where she lives. She tells a joke about living in the jungle gym. There is absolutely _no_ expression in this, like a robot was given a line to say and it was simply repeated. If you're gonna tell a joke, at least lead it a little or add some spin at the end of the sentence so that someone doesn't think you're so serious, especially when it's easily apparent you're lying.

20:27 - 20:39: Eli tells Oskar she wants to be alone. You can't tell if she's sad or serious since she's so monotone and her face is frozen as the scene unfolds, even after Oskar sends her a zinger about living there longer.

55:24 - 55:57: Eli climbs into bed with Oskar after just undressing. She apologizes for being cold, tells him that she flew to the window, and plays a game on his back, all in the same tone. Her face never changes. Wouldn't you think these three statements, very different things, require some inflection or reaction to what Oskar says?

That was me scanning the movie in just a few minutes, but I hope this gets my point across.

I believe your original question was related more to which one portrayed the book Eli better; not which one was the worse actress. My agreement with ACL on Chloe being more ‘superficial’ reflected my personal impressions of Reeve’s directing to an American audience in these particular instances, not Chloe’s acting ability, which I consider to be top-notch, as I've said many times before in other threads. TA, working directly with the author, did a better job, IMO, of capturing the essence of Eli. And whether or not it was Lina's acting or TA's directing, book Eli was portrayed more accurately by Lina than by Chloe. Remember, Eli is Swedish, not American, and was conjured up by a full-fledged Swede (JAL himself) -- and the film was directed by another one. The language spoken was also Swedish, and the actors and actresses were Swedish. Wouldn't we naturally expect the more accurate representation of her to be a more reserved Swedish one?

Perhaps I've strayed from the original question because I've revealed what I think the actual one is: do you think the expression used in the book by Eli was carried through by Lina Leandersson? For example, when Eli did X in the book, do you think Lina doing X on-screen showed the true Eli?

I didn't intend to look into Lina as an actress as a whole because I thought people could give me examples in the film where Eli did X and Lina's doing X really worked. Instead I got numerous mentions about how Chloë Moretz was "flat" as an actress or too superficial with purely subjective commentary about her performance as if it's fact.

In the end it's becoming that a better or worse actress is the means by which we see Eli's character since I'm not getting much else here that's showcasing her performance and how it relates to Eli. I think there's too much emphasis and people are assuming that's what the director wanted but when you act the same way in and out of the film I begin to discount that. Here's her moving and talking at an awards show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5tWqXXi-7I

I feel like people aren't gauging her personality at all and how it's reflected in the film. Is she better than this elsewhere (in the film or outside of it)? Or is she a robot doing exactly what Alfredson told to do?

[withinfocus]

The broadest range of expressions is worthless if the expressions themselves are not convincing. And yes, I am jaded. Because I'm faced with our progenies of modern acting school on an almost daily base and it makes me sick to see the same faceless, formulaic performances on pretty much every second actor. And that's actually why I keep away from so many discussions here - I see myself mostly unable to argue appropriately, because my studies have harneded my resentment against certain standards that I can and will not accept.

Are you saying then that Lina is very good at doing very little? I feel like I have to break this down because we're not getting each other. First, are you discounting or agreeing with all the specific evidence I've linked that Lina shows less expression (on film)? Answer that independent of whether or not you think it's "fake". I feel like I can't show you anything more that shows that Lina is not as expressive as Chloë. Second, assuming we've agreed that Lina is less expressive, do you think this is only due to Alfredson's direction or is she generally this way? Third, do you think her acting or real-life personality is stereotypically Swedish or put on? Fourth, what evidence can you provide that Chloë is "fake" with how she acts, both on or off the screen?

I feel like you're contradicting yourself because you won't say that Lina expresses less or more but somehow Chloë is the more "flat" of the two actors. Help me out here. I don't think I would have talked about Lina as an actress as a whole at all if you hadn't brought up that somehow Chloë is not right. All I really wanted at first were examples of Lina being Eli well.

[jetboy]

Using your own criteria, let’s have a more objective, fact-based example of where you really believe her acting and facial expressions derive from confusion or ‘bad acting,’ rather than good acting and/or directing. Remember, no generalizations now.

I believe your original question was related more to which one portrayed the book Eli better; not which one was the worse actress.

I agree with this quote. How are Linas facial expressions a sign of her confusion of how to portray Eli. I need some specifics. She conveyed many things with her expressions that she didnt have to with words. Can you imagine if she said these things out loud. "Oh Oskar you are so cute when you said I smell"

And I agree that you are asking two different questions ehrn talking about how Eli did. Its more important to tell a good story well, not be real close to the book. Being respectful is good of course but not at the expense of making a good movie and Alfredson probably had to change the book Eli in order to make Lina fit with her, same with Oskar and Kare