The "gay" father scene

[DavidZahir]

Okay enough with the vague hints and innuendos--what do you really think?

[crazychristina]

I got the impression that Janne was a bit of a bot, which is why he looked a bit uncomfortable. Erik had a grader outside his house and I'm guessing he worked maintaining roads and such, possibly for a local council. Janne possibly was always coming over for a drink, maybe he didn't have a regular job, maybe he didn't reciprocate much and he would also have realized that Oskar being there was a slight impediment to his planned drinking session. I totally agree that there wasn't a gay vibe at all, but I had read the book first so I knew the score.

[Ingenting-ing]

babyboi, I hear you about not assuming people are gay because they sit close and smile, or going on some kind of cinematic gay-witch-hunt. That said, the fact is that many or most American viewers misinterpret that scene (including infected members, myself included) so it's worth asking why.

Drawing the conclusion that those guys might be gay lovers doesn't happen in a vacuum. The context is that Americans miss the alcohol message because there's no cultural taboo here against offering guests hard liquor when children are present, as in Sweden. So what we see is this guy comes in, everyone acts *very* uncomfortable for no obvious reason, and we start looking for a reason. Well, if Janne were Erik's lover and that had caused the divorce...Well, that's a pretty reasonable explanation for the awkwardness. And it's true, these guys *do* seem just a little more familiar than most straight American guys would act toward each other (internalized homophobia maybe, but it's a reality). So it's not that viewers go into this with some kind of crazy gay-dar, but they do sense the awkwardness, then look for a reason. (Note that the awkwardness would stem from the presence of a lover who broke up the marriage, not necessarily because the lover happens to be male).

So congratulations on getting it right on first viewing. But I think you have to be careful, because a statement like "the grin on his face indicates to me that he is a complete idiot drunk" really isn't much different from saying "the grin on his face indicates to me that he is a complete flaming homosexual." On first viewing we were all grasping at straws here, and as you imply, it's really easy to jump to the wrong conclusion on scant evidence.

Guess I should sign this "just plain stoopid" <g>...

[lombano]

I don't think there's much mystery about the 'gay interpretation.' There are a few seconds after we've seen Oskar's unhappiness at seeing Janne, the awkwardness, etc, but before we see the bottle. At this point the audience has no reason to think Erik's an alcoholic and them being lovers is at this point no worse an explanation than any other.

[babyboi102909]

I agree. You have some really good points that i had not thought about. thanks for pointing those out

[covenant6452]

I've been waiting a long time for a long time to sound off on this topic. This scene has nothing to do with culture. I'm going to be completely blunt here and I hope I do not offend anyone by saying this, but here's my opinion on the whole idea that Oskar's dad is gay---it's complete and utter bull crap! Here's the way I see the scene. Janne comes over as everyone knows. he sits down beside Erik. What is wrong with that? Just because two men sit beside each other does NOT make them gay. Also, the grin on his face indicates to me that he is a complete idiot drunk who is waiting for some more booze. I have heard some people say that he looks at Oskar in a strange way. That too is a very presumptuous idea. He---again--- has the idiotic expression I mentioned before Again, that does NOT mean he is gay or wants to do anything inappropriate with Oskar. He is looking around waiting for the booze. When he says, "So, you did have something" or whatever it was he said it should have automatically told people that he came for booze and possible small-talk with his DRINKING BUDDY. Tomas Alfredson himself said he thought it was strange that people would even think that. call me crazy, but to me, it's quite obvious that janne and Erik are NOT lovers. I guess people think men aren't supposed to smile at each other or sit next to each other unless they are gay. I never got the impression they were lovers. That idea is just plain stupid. If i offend anyone, I'm sorry that is just my take on it. Not all men hide there emotions. Janne was a drunk happy to get some booze. End of story!

Does this mean I have to change all my of my viewpoints ( the ones where we disagree at least) over to your way of thinking, or I'll get thumped?

[intrige]

Babyboi: Ingenting-ing had some really good points, and you too. I agree with you, and see the logic in Ingeitng-ing's thinking. I think myself that it was odd that someone viewd oskar's dad as guy, cause I saw the alcahol. (Same culture almost, I guess) But I also think that the reason why people have thougt that there two men were gay is because of the scene. And the reason for the scene was to show Oskar that being gay was okay. Given the thought that Eli s a fromer boy, (that makes Oskar, in a twisted way) guy. That loving a male is okay. (that's better..) That that "reason" for a scene in that view is ver sweet I think. It shows that the viewer have accseptet Eli's "back story" and are working to figure it out from Oskar's point of view. It's a good thought. I also think that's why

[abner_mohl]

I've been waiting a long time for a long time to sound off on this topic. This scene has nothing to do with culture. I'm going to be completely blunt here and I hope I do not offend anyone by saying this, but here's my opinion on the whole idea that Oskar's dad is gay---it's complete and utter bull crap! Here's the way I see the scene. Janne comes over as everyone knows. he sits down beside Erik. What is wrong with that? Just because two men sit beside each other does NOT make them gay. Also, the grin on his face indicates to me that he is a complete idiot drunk who is waiting for some more booze. I have heard some people say that he looks at Oskar in a strange way. That too is a very presumptuous idea. He---again--- has the idiotic expression I mentioned before Again, that does NOT mean he is gay or wants to do anything inappropriate with Oskar. He is looking around waiting for the booze. When he says, "So, you did have something" or whatever it was he said it should have automatically told people that he came for booze and possible small-talk with his DRINKING BUDDY. Tomas Alfredson himself said he thought it was strange that people would even think that. call me crazy, but to me, it's quite obvious that janne and Erik are NOT lovers. I guess people think men aren't supposed to smile at each other or sit next to each other unless they are gay. I never got the impression they were lovers. That idea is just plain stupid. If i offend anyone, I'm sorry that is just my take on it. Not all men hide there emotions. Janne was a drunk happy to get some booze. End of story!

Great points, that's the way I always saw that scene that Janne was a booze hound there to mooch off of Oskar''s dad's liquor, it was a surprise that people thought they were a couple.

[Lacenaire]

Well, at last something other than Eli's finger nails (Oh sorry, hasn't this been asked about yet? Why aren't Eli's finger nails much longer, if she does not take care of herself? Does she bite them off? Or can she stop growing just be her will?)


When I watched the movie, the idea that it had anything to do with homosexuality never occurred to me. Now, one reason might have been that I had read the book, although If I remembered anything it must have been stored in some lower level memory cells. But two other reasons seem more likely.

Firstly, had this sort of idea been introduced into this movie at this point, it would have changed it entirely (and, in my opinion, ruined it completely). It would have thrown an entirely different light on the relationship between Eli and Oskar, and it would have suggested that sexuality was indeed part of it. Moreover, sexuality would have been introduced in way that to me (and I think to the majority of viewers) would have been seriously offensive - as something that is not part of one’s nature but is acquired “by example” (or to put it brutally: Oskar sees his father has a boyfriend and decides “if he can do that why not me?”). And what on earth would then the film appear to be saying?

I did not expect to see such an “innovative” movie on an international flight and I still don’t think (hope) it will happen any time soon.


The second reason is more prosaic. The sight of drunks, queuing in front of shops selling alcohol in early hours of the morning (before opening hours) or staggering along streets, or even lying in the gutter, was very common in my childhood. They were always male, quite often in pairs and nobody took them for anything but what they were.

I hated them, by the way, so this is one situation where I well understood Oskar's feelings even though neither of my parents drunk alcohol (I do).

I found also the comments on beards interesting. The reason is that if you walk into almost any mathematics department at a major university in Europe or the US, you probably see that more than a third of the professors have beards. Beards have certainly been a long tradition in mathematics.

I have had a beard since I was about 18. As for my hair: I have it cut once a year, and after I do it, it is pretty short. But this moment, it is shoulder length. I never noticed this having any negative effect at interviews, but as far as I can recall the guys who interviewed me didn’t look any better. Except, , of course, in Japan but in Japan gaijin have a special license and a weird look is just what the Japanese expect of a “henna gaijin”.

[DavidZahir]

Americans are a little sex-obsessed, not only in terms of actual sex (and the Puritan tendency to associate that with Original Sin) but also when it comes to gender roles. I put it down to our age as a nation--roughly that of a teenager IMHO.

Like I said, watching the movie initially the idea popped into my head but I rejected it. No sexual "vibe" that I could see (just as I never got any kind of a sexual vibe between Eli and Oscar--too young). Without sussing onto the alcoholism (which is actually kinda odd, given my mother was an alcoholic) my own impression was that this friend of his Dad was somehow wrapped up in a side of Oscar's father he did not like one bit. Which was right, as far as it goes.