Poolside Action

[PeteMork]

But it doesn't ring true for Eli to do anything but first deal with Jimmy. He is the immediate threat to Oskar. I can conceive of no rationale or mindset on Eli's part that would lead her to do anything else first.

If you can believe that Jimmy's head can be separated from his body and it doesn't affect his hand in the water (as the film shows us must have happened), why is it less believable that something less violent but still terminal could have happened also?

Also, look at Jimmy's position when last we see him alive. He is on his knees and one hand, leaning out over the water in a prone position. To look up at Martin's final resting place alongside the pool, he would have to rock back and straighten up. This would either lift Oskar's head out of the frame, or Jimmy would have to relinquish his grip. I count 15 or 16 seconds between the time of the first crash, and Jimmy's head splashing down. Is it really believable that he could sit there watching everything that was going on for that period of time and his grip does not falter or change in the slightest?

I have thought about the pool scene for a long time. Whether this was the sequence of events that Tomas was intending to portray or not, I believe it is the only sequence that fits with everything that we are shown on the screen.

QFT. I think Wolfchild's is the best interpretation that deals with all the facts presented to us, even though it is flawed. I think JAL unwittingly expressed the problem himself in the book with:

The blood had run out in such a course, left traces in such places (ceiling, beams), that the immediate impression was that it had been made by someone who was... flying. It was this he was now trying to explain. Explain away. And would probably succeed in doing.

I think there was a bit too much poetic license taken by TA in this scene, which makes any theory of the sequence of events unsatisfying. But Wolfchild's seems to me to be the 'least unsatifying.'

[gattoparde59]

Wolfchild's version is possible, but it remains just that, Wolfchild's version. There is nothing on screen to show us that is happening.

Eli wanting to hit Jimmy first and Jimmy otherwise jumping up if was able to do so remain opinions, regardless of how much thought went into them.

The other factor is timing and suspense. The director wants to leave us guessing as to what is going on for a moment and then "splash" etc. It is also possible that Eli first decapitates Jimmy, then grabs a fleeing Martin and then drags both Martin and the head down to the end of the pool, where the head appears in the water. Foreshadowed perhaps by the earlier shot of Jimmy holding Oskar by his hair. Eli holds Oskar's decapitated the same way, by the hair?

[rgh]

This is probably a case where everything was laid out by how well it would present on screen, not necessarily how Eli would have done it. Artistic license.

[PeteMork]

This is probably a case where everything was laid out by how well it would present on screen, not necessarily how Eli would have done it. Artistic license.

My thoughts exactly. I think this is the primary cause of the problems we're all having trying to analyze this scene. It doesn't seem to hold up well to detailed analysis, but looks great on screen.

It would be very interesting if we could get TA to comment on this.

[Dragonclaws]

Why, how dare you imply that this movie isn't real? That's against the code of geekdom.

[a_contemplative_life]

I never understood how the leg could pass in front of Jimmy's arm, for starters.

[Dragonclaws]

Maybe Eli carried the kid past while severing the arm... or maybe Eli severed the arm with the leg... Okay, it doesn't make sense.

[drakkar]

I never understood how the leg could pass in front of Jimmy's arm, for starters.

Could be a goof, but the intention was to get our attention towards the background for the landing of the head, so they might have done it on purpose
.

[gattoparde59]

I agree with the general idea that this movie was made with the cinema in mind, and not for obsessed film fans who sweat over very detail. I still think the whole pool scene was brilliant.

[danielma]

I never understood how the leg could pass in front of Jimmy's arm, for starters.

Well thanks to the power of VLC. Lets break this thing down frame by frame and really take a look at it. Because this always has bothered me but after looking at it frame by frame, well lets just jump to it

First of all I agree with Wolfies take on it. Upon many rewatches I always came to conclusion that Jimmy was the first one that died. Its the only logical proceeding. I've always envisoned being that Eli crashes through the ceiling landing directly on Jimmy and breaking his neck in the process. Then proceeding to take care of the other two.

But the problem I always had was with Martins legs dangling in front of Jimmy's arm. It always looked dis proportioned to me. Untill I really took a good close look at it frame by frame on VLC.



So as I said I agree with Wolfies analysis. It makes sense that Martin would run for the hills considering this whole time he has been conflicted with everything he has done to Oskar. In the first frame you can see Jimmy holding Oskar down, the mistake I would always make though is thinking that it was Martin's entire leg that came through the water. Making me wonder how that would be proportionally possible. But as you can see in frame two, its really only Martin's feet that enters the frame. Going by Wolfies theory, Martin makes a bolt for it, Eli flies after him and grabs him. He struggles to get out of her grasp but as we all that ain't happening, she takes him high up and brings him down just barely touching the surface of the water. As he is struggling to free himself, his feet enter the water and thus entering frame. Of course he is struggling and given the theoretical speed of Eli gliding along with him it would make sense that his body would be contorting in desperate need to escape. Now in the frame prior to all of this it is clear that Jimmy is reaching his arm out to hold Oskar under water. There would theoritcally be enough of a gap in his reach for Martin's feet to dangle just underneath them.

So the scene does work, when you break it down frame by frame and put some thought into it, Wolfies idea does theoretically work rather well.

However I can't forgive the fact that if Eli did break Jimmy's neck then why didn't his body go limb in the process. That's the part that I consider the real goof here in this scene