The sad qweer vampire boiii

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intrige
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The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by intrige » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:53 am

anonymous asked:

I've recently heard criticism of Let the Right One In as being transphobic, which I guess never really occurred to me before because I didn't read Eli as trans? But people took issue with the general concept of someone presenting as a girl as a form of deception (leading to murder). idk I wondered if you had any thoughts


I can see where there complaints are coming from—it definitely overlaps in the Venn diagram with an old and ugly trope about deceitful trans folk, albeit I think unintentionally.

It doesn’t particularly bother me in this instance because Eli doesn’t come across as deliberately presenting female. He’s mistaken for a girl, and that’s easier for him, it’s true (hence the overlap with that nasty entrapment stereotype).

But what he is is a child who was forcibly kept that way by the pedophile who made him a vampire. He was mutilated to keep him from ever having any control over his gender—he’ll never grow up to be a man, woman, or anything else. His body is frozen as a child and is out of his control forever, because his abuser liked him that way. And so it’s an incredible moment of vulnerability for him to share with Oskar “I’m not a girl” — the way he actually determines himself rather than the way the world determines him.

That doesn’t mean there’s not some unconscious overlap with stereotypes about trans people, but I appreciate the messier, raw and valuable character they’re going for there. My sad queer vampire boy.

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I found this roaming around tumblr and well, I quite liked it. So even though I and many others have talked about this at length before some new members and old could have something new contribute, so, discuss? :)

Also I had a hard time categorizing it in the film thread, this, or book thread so yeah.
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by CyberGhostface » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:45 pm

A few points:

1. Yeah he's not trans. He still identifies as a boy (Elias).
2. Eli isn't intentionally trying to deceive Oskar. Oskar assumed Eli is a girl and Eli tries to tell him otherwise at numerous points before outright telling him that Eli is short for Elias.
3. 'people took issue with the general concept of someone presenting as a girl as a form of deception (leading to murder)' is a misrepresentation of Eli. Eli's general schtick is not "pretend to be a girl to lure people to their death". He pretended to be injured once to kill Jocke as a last resort and his gender was irrelevant in luring Jocke -- the deception was only that he was a child in danger.
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by intrige » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:14 pm

Well yeah I personally don't mind it much if Eli is a boy and that's it ya know? Makes the story interesting either way. :)
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by gkmoberg1 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:55 pm

This is a good perspective.

I went and read that part of the novel again, where Eli shows Oskar for the first time that the castle and dinner where he (and the other young children) met the wig man. JAL makes it very unclear whether wig man 'he' is actually a 'he' and in two ways -if you read the passage- suggests it could be a woman. Could 'he' have been a 'she'? Does that matter?

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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by metoo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:22 pm

CyberGhostface wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:45 pm
A few points:

1. Yeah he's not trans. He still identifies as a boy (Elias).
I don't think the novel reveals what gender Eli identifies as, other than "not a girl", which he says several times. That his real name is Elias, and that he acknowledges this to be a boy name doesn't necessarily say that he identifies as a boy, although this might be the case.

JAL's intention was for Eli to be androgynous, but that doesn't necessarily say that Eli would be aware of being so. Now, the novel does not reveal Eli's inner thoughts on the matter, so we cannot really tell. Perhaps his statement that he is neither a boy nor a girl in the sleepover scene is the result of having contemplated the issue and come to this conclusion. Or perhaps it was just something he blurted out to avoid a tricky subject.
CyberGhostface wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:45 pm
2. Eli isn't intentionally trying to deceive Oskar. Oskar assumed Eli is a girl and Eli tries to tell him otherwise at numerous points before outright telling him that Eli is short for Elias.
True. But it seems that he didn't think this was sufficient, since the next day he finally resolved to reveal the truth to Oskar quite literally.
CyberGhostface wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:45 pm
3. 'people took issue with the general concept of someone presenting as a girl as a form of deception (leading to murder)' is a misrepresentation of Eli. Eli's general schtick is not "pretend to be a girl to lure people to their death". He pretended to be injured once to kill Jocke as a last resort and his gender was irrelevant in luring Jocke -- the deception was only that he was a child in danger.
I agree, Eli doesn't pretend to be a girl in the novel. Still, I'm not convinced that he is unaware of the impression he gives most people, and that he uses this to his own benefit. Furthermore, I think he wouldn't hesitate to actively pretend to be a girl, if it helped him reach his objectives.
gkmoberg1 wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:55 pm
I went and read that part of the novel again, where Eli shows Oskar for the first time that the castle and dinner where he (and the other young children) met the wig man. JAL makes it very unclear whether wig man 'he' is actually a 'he' and in two ways -if you read the passage- suggests it could be a woman. Could 'he' have been a 'she'? Does that matter?
The wig man indeed initially has an unclear gender in the first memory transfer scene. Still, he is referred to as "mannen" (the man) and "han" (he), so I guess he most likely is a man, albeit perhaps not a very masculine one. But he could have been a woman, and it would matter. For some reason I find it even more despicable if a woman does what the wig man did to Eli, compared to a man doing it. I probably have a more traditional perspective on gender issues than I would like to admit...
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by intrige » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 pm

metoo wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:22 pm
But he could have been a woman, and it would matter. For some reason I find it even more despicable if a woman does what the wig man did to Eli, compared to a man doing it. I probably have a more traditional perspective on gender issues than I would like to admit...
I can see what you mean, but I would not describe it as worse, as the actions are the same no matter the gender of the wigged man. But I would rather describe it as more shocking. Statistically speaking men are more often abusers to all kinds of people than women. Most women have strong parental instincts even without being a parent. It is more shocking for us, culturally, maybe even in how we understand our genetics, that a woman would do such a thing to a child. But women are abusers, even sexual abusers. Not just men. And most of us have a harder time wrapper out heads around that. If a woman or a man is abusing a child, the abuse and the gravity of the person who abuse is the same. For me there are so many mental red stoppers for merly putting the senario in my thoughts, because acording to my cultural and personal morals, it is so unimaginable. Shocking.

We expect him to be a man pretty much, because what kind of woman would do such a thing to a child?
I once came over a clip of a mother beating her newborn baby with a TV remote as it screamed and reached for her. She laughed and found it so funny. It is many years ago but I sometimes think about that. The clip I found was used as evidence and she was put in jail thankfully. But ti shocked me to the core, on so many levels. It was then I learned that all people are truly capable to do anything.
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by gkmoberg1 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:12 am

intrige wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:21 pm
We expect him to be a man pretty much, because what kind of woman would do such a thing to a child?
This is my thinking too ~ I imagine we're all on the same thought pattern here. Yet, I had just had to put that out there. Especially when 'he' is described as JAL put him in this first memory transfer.

However as has been written by several of us, it seems probable Eli was (trapped) with this person for some time. Months if not years. Had it been that wig man were to have been a woman, Eli surely would have realized this, and so Eli would - after 200 years - remember 'her' through that lens and perhaps not at all in what would have had been an initial perception of 'her' being a 'him.'

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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by Pissball » Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:19 am

This belongs to the book section I think. Eli "gender issue" is 100% pointless in the movie.

I did read at least three reviews (two blogs and a youtube video) calling either the book, or JAL "transphobic" mostly by two factors: - The false assumption of the "man in disguise" who fools and seduces heterosexual males (which is never really approached in the book, Jocke could just help a little kid hurted, the cancer woman invited a kid, Virgina was attacked in animalistic way and the sexual exploitation of Eli who's a kid, so no "femme-fatale" is given by Hakan who likes boys, and Oskar is "informed" in a very sensitive way he's not a girl, even if he actually was transgender "would you like me if I wasn't a girl" is very tender).
- AND the change/use of pronouns.

Obviously, JAL never intented a transgender allegory (I presume), he created a character who's androgynous because looks like a girl, but is really a boy, but this character is never really aware of that, and I guess JAL never was either, Eli's "gender performance" depends on what the story needs if you ask me.

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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by cmfireflies » Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:07 am

Regarding trans themes in the movie, I really like this review that trig already posted somewhere on this site.
They are really positive as to Eli being a trans girl in the movie. It's hilarious, especially the opening.
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Re: The sad qweer vampire boiii

Post by intrige » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:56 pm

cmfireflies wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:07 am
Regarding trans themes in the movie, I really like this review that trig already posted somewhere on this site.
They are really positive as to Eli being a trans girl in the movie. It's hilarious, especially the opening.
AAHH yes this one I remember, I liked it quite a lot. It brought up some interesting things :)
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