Did no one else dislike this film?

For discussion of Tomas Alfredson's Film Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
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danielma
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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by danielma » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:29 am

Is it possible that I liked this film more than you did because I was focused on finding what was there, and you could have been distracted by noticing what was not?
I think that is the big problem with every Book to Film Adaptation. I think fans focus too much on what the film leaves out rather then focusing on what the film presents.

For my money, the best adaptations are the ones that stay true to the ideas presented in the book, but aren't just copying word for word. This was a big problem I had with the first Harry Potter film, it was so close to the text it might as well have just been called a "Videobook". The thing that I personally liked about TTSS (and LTROI for that matter) is that both films are faithful to the books they are adapted from, but at the same time they feel slightly removed. TTSS then becomes its own thing, same goes for LTROI. Yes they are both true to the books they are inspired from, but they manage to become their own seperate entity.

I think that quite a few novel fans forget this and focus far too much on what the film ommited rather then focusing on what the film is actually doing.
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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by Murphypacker » Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:30 pm

Thanks, wolfchild, for your response.

I think the problem is that I found this forum googling 'TTSP forum. I wanted to discuss the book, and instead I found myself in a forum for fans of the movie director.

I never expect a movie to be just like the book. There have to be changes as the movie shows rather than tells. I am impressed that people liked this movie as much as they did, but what I wrote is still what I think.

Example of excellent book, excellent movie: Winter's Bone. Changes were made by the director that I think were brilliant, and yet the director told the story the book told.

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by jetboy » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:21 am

Ive only seen the movie and though I enjoyed it, I wonder if the decision to make it was made before the how. Or at least enough to make me wonder if they thought it more of a challenge than an ideal idea. I say that because as complicated as it was, it wasnt about the complications, it was more about the human aspect and I must say it seems a bit stuffed. Having said that I loved the humanistic side of it.

My question to Murphypacker is why didnt you feel Oldmans take on Smiley innacurate and why didnt you enjoy it even if it was different

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by Murphypacker » Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:15 pm

Well, Jetboy, I didn't like Oldman's take on Smiley because Smiley is delineated in great and impressive detail in the book, so that he comes alive and you can actually see him and hear his tone of voice as you read. Alec Guinness picked this up for the BBC series and was wonderful, and, for people who liked the book, delightfully Smiley. Oldman's portrayal, if you can call it that, was just not Smiley. He is even a totally different physical type.

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a quite different physical type from Truman Capote, but brought his performance off OK because of his great acting talent and the effort he put in. I found Oldman's Smiley jarring from beginning to end.

I think to make a creation such as the book's Smiley altogether different was not a good idea. It was, as you suggest, IMHO, not a good idea to make a film of Tinker Tailor and not make it at the same time. Write another story, for heaven's sake, and create your own characters.

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by jetboy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:56 am

I certainly understand wanting something to be true to the original source, especially if you have a special place in your heart for that original source, though I dont know if you are coming from a place where you think the original source was disrespected or are you just speaking from a critical perspective. Either way, I cant comment being that this film is my only exposure to the story but I certainly feel empathy for someone who felt the original source wasnt given a respectful treatment for those that have read the book.

From my ignorant of the book point of view, I liked Oldman and all the acting and felt Tomas Alfredsons direction was excellent even if I thought it shouldve been slimmed down some more.

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by gattoparde59 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:31 am

Murphypacker wrote:Well, Jetboy, I didn't like Oldman's take on Smiley because Smiley is delineated in great and impressive detail in the book, so that he comes alive and you can actually see him and hear his tone of voice as you read. Alec Guinness picked this up for the BBC series and was wonderful, and, for people who liked the book, delightfully Smiley. Oldman's portrayal, if you can call it that, was just not Smiley. He is even a totally different physical type.

Philip Seymour Hoffman was a quite different physical type from Truman Capote, but brought his performance off OK because of his great acting talent and the effort he put in. I found Oldman's Smiley jarring from beginning to end.

I think to make a creation such as the book's Smiley altogether different was not a good idea. It was, as you suggest, IMHO, not a good idea to make a film of Tinker Tailor and not make it at the same time. Write another story, for heaven's sake, and create your own characters.
I have had trouble mustering enthusiasm to see this film, and Murphypacker has pushed me even further in that direction. George Smiley is a fun character and if Gary Oldman does not do it right, then that is a big strike against this film. I think I will go back and rediscover the book and take a pass on the film version.

Thanks also for reminding me that Winter's Bone began as a book. I need to go and read that as well. :)

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by Murphypacker » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:25 pm

gattoparde 59: I think you'll really enjoy revisiting the book Tinker Tailor: I just finished doing so and it was most enjoyable and moving. I recommend, also, that you read Winter's Bone. It's good that you saw the movie first. If you read the book first, you might have done a double-take at a couple of things that were different from the book, but not from the intention of the book and the story it told and mood it evoked. I can see that these changes were perfect for putting the book on film. After you read the book maybe we can talk about this with spoiler's alerts.

Yes, jetboy, I guess it's one way to put it that I felt the book, which I thought was an extraordinary book, was disrespected by the film. I am sure this was not the director's intention, but that's the way it worked out for me. Bad choices, as the schoolchildren say.

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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by Nightrider » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:14 am

Whichever work is better...book or new movie, I can't emphasize enough the importance of seeing the original BBC miniseries. It's totally worth it. True, Guinness creates a different Smiley from Oldman, but the BBC version answers many questions left unanswered in Alfredson's equally worthy film.
In the end book, miniseries and the film greatly complement each other and create one heck of a entertaining troika for fans of John le Carré.
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Re: Did no one else dislike this film?

Post by DavidZahir » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:20 pm

I know a lot of folks who didn't like this film.

I myself loved it. When it comes to judging those who disliked it--or more accurately, judging their dislike--I think it all comes down to specifics. Those who complain it wasn't a "real" spy thriller like James Bond or Mission Impossible, well I just quietly pity them. But if it just wasn't your cuppa tea, if the characters didn't touch your heart, etc. That fall under the category of "Different strokes for..." etc.

Those who lift their noses and say no one can play George Smiley but Alec Guinness, well, they get the pity reaction. And those who just lament how much ended up missing from the book--I nod and understand and politely disagree.
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But let My name be in the Book of Love!
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