Eli asks Oskar

[EEA]

I was working on a FF about Eli returning but I dropped the idea. It was going to be about what Eli was doing during that time that she was gone and what led her to go back and check on Oskar. But then I thought what if Eli stayed around town. So I don't know if Eli stayed or left town. Dosen't matter since either way she came and rescue Oskar.

[sauvin]

I may not understand the multiverse properly, but given that we're talking about a vampire, what the heck? Let's find a girl who likes to wear flowers and twigs in her hair, dress in these shimmery diaphanous things and say "blessed be" a lot, give her a notebook and let her project herself astrally throughout the multiverse to find a few thousand Elis and record what she wound up doing. Since in my hallucinated multiverse any possibility that can be expressed within the strictures of the physical universe as we understand it must eventually find actual expression if you root around in the multiverse deeply enough, the concept of probability reduces very simply to the assertion that a given possibility has found expression in a given proportion of the parts of the multiverse so canvassed.

Assuming our blessed Bea projected widely enough, she'd have found that some of these Elis went to Copenhagen rather than Stockholm, others ate Oskar before he even had a chance to say "hi", others died in their bathrooms, some never left Blackeberg and some just never came back. At the moment, we're only interested in cases where she developed a relationship with Oskar, survived her bathroom scene and actually did leave.

There's an element of time involved in such cases, since in some corners of the multiverse she'll have said "!@#$@%#" sooner rather than later, in others rather more later than sooner, and in yet others never at all. From the observed datum points a curve could be fitted together with an approximated density function such that 0<=t<=INF where 0 represents the time of departure and INF represents (for all practical purposes) what would have been Oskar's natural full life span, f(t) represents the number of multiverses (against the total polled) wherein she said "!@#$@%#", and the value of the function's total cumulative density is or can be approximated to 1. Some sort of Gaussian curve, in other words.

And from THIS could be devised a cumulative density function to use in calculating the probability that Eli would return within any given window of time. Since we're also assuming zero relationship between her decision to return and the events of the pool scene (which are also seen as expressions of possibility and thus also subject to empirical distribution), the probability of her arriving exactly within a specific window of time necessary to conjoin with (and frustrate) the expression of Oskar's premature demise might very well involve a decimal point followed by a dismayingly long string of zeros before the first significant digit.

... the likelihood of Eli returning at any specific time need not to have anything to do with what was happening to Oskar. It is thus equally likely that he would arrive in the short time frame while Oskar needed to be saved, and still could be, than at any other time.

This statement is therefore patently absurd. Suspension of disbelief aside, it does absolutely nothing to challenge Ash's statement

Perhaps someone could explain how, two days after supposedly leaving Blackeberg, Eli turns up at precisely the right place and precisely the right second to rescue Oskar at the pool.
And although it's all fiction I know, it does stretch the even credulous reader to believe such is remotely plausible.

There was an early theory, one I think I remember myself entertaining, that since she's a vampire, she might also have a few of the other qualities vampires of other subgenres sometimes have, including the ability to form psychic bonds of some sort. "I created you", Marius tells Lestat, "I've always known where you are". That theory goes something like this: she split, got partway down the road, "heard" Oskar's fear for his life, bailed and winged it back just as fast as she could flap. As good a theory as any other I've heard, I suppose, except that it introduces elements not supplied in the source material and thus argues against Ockham (who happens to be something of a personal hero for having simplified my life immensely at times).

As usual, there is some fine print. The amount of time post-Blackeberg Eli might need to realise there's a new void to contend with might vary by multiversal region, but I'd be willing to wager a few donuts that the pressure exerted by this vacuum would build intolerably fast. A day, maybe two, and a substantial number of these impulsive preteen Eli parallels would be more than ready to say "!@#$@%#" against the judgement the centuries have taught them. Since the bullies and the psycho are themselves also very young, with similar problems with impulse control, I'd be willing to bet a jelly roll or two it wouldn't take them more than a day or two to concoct and implement their plan.

The term "window of time" is significant. Assuming this is happening on a school night, the conjuncted events as described would have to happen in the early evening - after school, possibly before or perhaps shortly after normal dinnertime. Not very long, in other words, after the sun has set in wintertime Stockholm, when Eli is free to roam. This may serve to condense the approximated probabilities involved down to a set of fractions easily manipulated with ten fingers or less. Now, we're not trying to grapple with temporal continua so much as we are a handful of neatly gift-wrapped parcels of discrete time, measured in the integer unit of a single day.

We can't argue against the unsinkably romantic eea. Truthfully, we simply do not know what happened after Lacke lost his life and before Oskar almost lost his. Maybe Eli darn well did just hang out in the shadows, muttering to herself, trying to decide what she wanted and what she wanted to do about it while she kept an eye on him. In "real" terms, this theory is just as good as mine.

Frankly, the only reason I argue for Eli having left, said "!@#$@%#" and come back is that it's thematically consistent with the rest of the story, this "!@#$@%#" representing the recognition of yet one more barrier to overcome - within herself - and promptly cursing it out of existence.

The rest of this discussion is just us grumpy old nit-pickers arguing against picking out eyes of newts.

[gattoparde59]

There was an early theory, one I think I remember myself entertaining, that since she's a vampire, she might also have a few of the other qualities vampires of other subgenres sometimes have, including the ability to form psychic bonds of some sort. "I created you", Marius tells Lestat, "I've always known where you are". That theory goes something like this: she split, got partway down the road, "heard" Oskar's fear for his life, bailed and winged it back just as fast as she could flap. As good a theory as any other I've heard, I suppose, except that it introduces elements not supplied in the source material and thus argues against Ockham (who happens to be something of a personal hero for having simplified my life immensely at times).

There is a psychic link here, except that it all seems to go to Oskar rather than Eli. Eli knows there is a death threat against Oskar (at the train station) and Eli had promised to help Oskar when she was talking him into "hitting back hard."

Eli seems to be stalking Oskar?

I think the movie does a better job of foreshadowing the pool scene, if not explaining it.

[metoo]

[...]
And from THIS could be devised a cumulative density function to use in calculating the probability that Eli would return within any given window of time. Since we're also assuming zero relationship between her decision to return and the events of the pool scene (which are also seen as expressions of possibility and thus also subject to empirical distribution), the probability of her arriving exactly within a specific window of time necessary to conjoin with (and frustrate) the expression of Oskar's premature demise might very well involve a decimal point followed by a dismayingly long string of zeros before the first significant digit.

... the likelihood of Eli returning at any specific time need not to have anything to do with what was happening to Oskar. It is thus equally likely that he would arrive in the short time frame while Oskar needed to be saved, and still could be, than at any other time.

This statement is therefore patently absurd. Suspension of disbelief aside, it does absolutely nothing to challenge Ash's statement

It wasn't intended to challenge anything, but to enlighten.

Any instance of time for Eli's arrival would have a similar probability, within reasonable limits. That the one he did arrive at might have had a very low probability doesn't make any other time more probable.

We humans are very poorly equipped to intuitively understand probabilities. That's why we believe miracles have occurred, when this is not so. There are many examples of this in the literature, but alas I have no references at hand.

Perhaps someone could explain how, two days after supposedly leaving Blackeberg, Eli turns up at precisely the right place and precisely the right second to rescue Oskar at the pool.
And although it's all fiction I know, it does stretch the even credulous reader to believe such is remotely plausible.

Thus: Eli could turn up at this precise time, because any other time (within reasonable limits) would be similarly likely. That it seems unlikely is a misconception, caused by our poor intuitive understanding of probabilities.

[...]
The term "window of time" is significant. Assuming this is happening on a school night, the conjuncted events as described would have to happen in the early evening - after school, possibly before or perhaps shortly after normal dinnertime. Not very long, in other words, after the sun has set in wintertime Stockholm, when Eli is free to roam. This may serve to condense the approximated probabilities involved down to a set of fractions easily manipulated with ten fingers or less. Now, we're not trying to grapple with temporal continua so much as we are a handful of neatly gift-wrapped parcels of discrete time, measured in the integer unit of a single day.

Some information can be found in the novel. The training was at thursday nights, beginning at seven pm. Regarding when the training ended, however, we have to make an assumption: The training would likely have lasted no less than one hour, and no more than two, given the intended clientele. Thus, Jimmy & Jonny would have shown up between eight and nine pm, and Eli would as well.

The sunset in Blackeberg at the 12th of November 1981 was at 15:30, which gives Eli between 4.5 to 5.5 hours to decide to go back, and to perform the actual going. I wouldn't say that around five hours is "not very long".

Some more assumptions, which also are an answer to a question eea posted earlier: Let's say that Eli flew all the way, and that he is able to make 50 km/h. If he flew for five hours, he would have been able to cover 250 km, i.e. the distance to Karlstad. If he could fly at twice that speed, he could have started at Oslo, Helsinki or Copenhagen. (Alternatively, Eli could have spent some time contemplating what to do, before starting his journey.)

Frankly, the only reason I argue for Eli having left, said "!@#$@%#" and come back is that it's thematically consistent with the rest of the story, this "!@#$@%#" representing the recognition of yet one more barrier to overcome - within herself - and promptly cursing it out of existence.

I still agree!

The rest of this discussion is just us grumpy old nit-pickers arguing against picking out eyes of newts.

Well, ahem...

[Swaefheard]

Is it necessary to assume Eli flew back? He could simply have taken a taxi from wherever he'd gone. Flying may well have used too much energy for him to have dealt with the bullies without having to feed again first.

[metoo]

Is it necessary to assume Eli flew back? He could simply have taken a taxi from wherever he'd gone. Flying may well have used too much energy for him to have dealt with the bullies without having to feed again first.

It isn't necessary, but it would plausibly be the fastest way. There also are indications that Eli had his wings developed already when he arrived at the bath house, which supports the idea that he flew at least the last stretch.

But I like the idea that flying would consume a lot of energy. I creates a limitation, reducing Eli's power. On the other hand - would Eli have hesitated wasting energy on returning to Oskar ASAP? I think not. Especially since he hardly could have expected to find Oskar needing help to handle bullies. Also, if he had expected such a need, he would rather had prioritised going as fast as possible before conserving energy. And who knows - maybe he did take a few slurps, while he was at it...

[EEA]

Well I am bad at math so I am going to support the theory that Eli stayed in town hiding in one of the abandoned buildings.

[Mendora]

......
never would have guessed that the topic I dug up can go on this far. O_o

[Ash]

I can buy all that, which is what I actually want to believe. But wouldn't that make Eli less than honest with Oskar - saying that she was leaving then not doing so, and then sneaking around spying on him without his knowledge, for how long was she going to this?
This scenario doesn't fit too well with the theory that she was always open and honest with Oskar. It leaves the door slightly ajar for suggestions she could be deceptive with him, perhaps calculating would be a better word.
The novel doesn't present any evidence that a psychic link exists. Eli appears to have had no vibes from other instances when Oskar was being bullied. Then again perhaps she did, and JAL just didn't write it down.

[Swaefheard]

Is there just a hint of a psychic link in the rock, paper, scissors game when "Eli started to get a little irritated. ‘Do you know what I am going to pick?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘How?’ ‘I just know, that’s all. It happens all the time. I get a picture in my head."
And in the scenes where Eli showed Oskar events from her past life. Perhaps the kiss had nothing to do with transferring the thoughts and Eli just wanted to snog Oskar