The castration

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
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NILS
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Re: The castration

Post by NILS » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:26 pm

bore wrote:
And this part: "More time.. . Endless time. Imprisoned." makes me think that the biting occurs long after Eli has been released from the table and put in a cell somewhere.
I would agree -when you see this words isolated.
But the following depiction:
"Then the glowing rod moves up into his head and everything turns pink as he jerks his head up from the rope..."
makes me think, that Eli was still on the table...
So I agree with gattoparde59 and a_contemplative_life.
May all your dreams die hard
You ain't out until you're dead
Grab your soul and don't let go
Just make sure your dreams die hard
You matter, so fight for better

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metoo
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Re: The castration

Post by metoo » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:15 pm

bore wrote:
On page 311 JAL wrote:... öppnar ögonen och otydligt ser det blonda håret, de blå ögonen som fjärran skogstjärnar. Ser skålen mannen håller i händerna, skålen som förs till munnen och hur han dricker. Hur mannen blundar, äntligen blundar och dricker... Mer tid... Oändlig tid. Inspärrad. Mannen biter. Och dricker. Biter. Och dricker.
I always assumed that Elis penis was just disposed, that it never entered the bowl and that the bowl only was used for collecting the blood.
I also thought that way, the penis was disposed of right away.

My first impression upon reading about the glowing bar being forced up through Elias' body was that it was the infection spreading, and that the transformation would be complete when it had reached Elias' head.

But Virginia's experiences are quite different, so I soon changed my mind on that.

I also imagined Elias being bitten repeatedly at the wound. (Maybe I'm weird, maybe I'm just Swedish. Maybe it's the glass of tomato-juice at my table. ;)) My initial interpretation was that the reason for taking Elias' blood there was to make the progress slower, allowing for a longer time as a blood supply.

However, LTODD changes that. Oskar is apparently being infected through his hand, and I would assume that the process would be rather quick, or else Eli wouldn't have chosen that approach. Oskar would have been too vulnerable while being half-infected, i.e. affected by sunshine and inability to eat normal food, but still not able to feed as a vampire, or defend himself. See my exploration of that issue, if you like.

I still read the text as describing Elias being imprisoned for a long time, which would not have been calendar-wise, since he wasn't infected by the castration, which happened at the age of 12, and he was 12 as a vampire. But even a couple of months of horrible imprisonment would have felt as an eternity to Elias.

Finally, Eli's memories as transferred to Oskar are, I'd say, rather about feelings than actual facts. Thus, those images might be chronologically incoherent, but still true.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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God of Vampires
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Re: The castration

Post by God of Vampires » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:08 pm

metoo wrote: My first impression upon reading about the glowing bar being forced up through Elias' body was that it was the infection spreading, and that the transformation would be complete when it had reached Elias' head.
That sounds like a medieval torture device :shock: . Reminds me of this http://www.medievality.com/pear-of-anguish.html (read at own risk, you might lose your faith in humanity) if you put it in a forge before use :shock: :shock: (though impalement by a red-hot metal spike might be closer :cry: ) .

Poor Eli :cry: .

For me, the vampire lord represents the evil of the past. Following the dark traditions of his own time, where the castration of servants were common and torture was applied to those who question the norms set by authority. Not to mention that castration was another thing the inquisition used as torture or punishment. Sometimes, humanity is simply sick.
"I think Eli, just as me, is a fan of multicoloured equines. You need this to get through an eternity of bloodshed."
_God of Vampires/Prince Darkmoon, Proud infected, proud brony.

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bore
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Re: The castration

Post by bore » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:21 pm

God of Vampires wrote:
metoo wrote: My first impression upon reading about the glowing bar being forced up through Elias' body was that it was the infection spreading, and that the transformation would be complete when it had reached Elias' head.
That sounds like a medieval torture device :shock: . Reminds me of this http://www.medievality.com/pear-of-anguish.html (read at own risk, you might lose your faith in humanity) if you put it in a forge before use :shock: :shock: (though impalement by a red-hot metal spike might be closer :cry: ) .

Poor Eli :cry: .

For me, the vampire lord represents the evil of the past. Following the dark traditions of his own time, where the castration of servants were common and torture was applied to those who question the norms set by authority. Not to mention that castration was another thing the inquisition used as torture or punishment. Sometimes, humanity is simply sick.
Yep, I also asumed that it was just "ordinary" torture.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche

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Angelmaker
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Re: The castration

Post by Angelmaker » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:34 am

I haven't got the book to hand right now but when Eli was hallucinating in the old womans house Eli heard the lord saying something like "come back to us Eli". That makes me think that the lord had intentions for Eli and Eli escaped. He obviously infected Eli deliberately and the castration was either just a sick evil act or that and something else
But he, whose heart a skogsrå steals it never will recover. His soul will long for moonlight dreams and no mere mortal lover...

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metoo
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Re: The castration

Post by metoo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:20 am

Well, it isn't clear that the call was made by the man, Eli hears a call and sees the man, but is isn't explicit that the man talks. Anyway, I interpret this symbolically, the hallucination was Eli's perception of being called to share the destiny of the man and all his victims (short of Eli). Which I think is death.

Anyway, my take about the castration is that genitals have long been regarded as a source of life. By taking Eli's blood from there, the man would have gotten life. Maybe he was just believing that, maybe (in the world of LTROI) there is real magic by that procedure. I think the man was misled, on the principle of not adding any more magic to explain things than is explicitly stated in the novel.

Also, the man's wig is 17th century, this may be a clue. In the mid 18th century, when Elias was born and lived, the male fashion was different. In the 17th century, however, Sweden was a major power, and the man might have become infected in the many wars Swedish troops were involved in down in continental Europe in that era. And he might have become 'conserved' as he was at that time, including his fashion habits.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: The castration

Post by rgh » Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:43 am

I had interpreted the sequence of events to have included a period of captivity after the castration and being infected, and then somehow escaping from the vampire lord. She doesn't seem to know what happened to him, and from her reaction to the hallucination, she is still afraid of running into him again. This would be a passive sort of fear. In other words, she in not really expecting him, but fears him anyway. Who wouldn't, after that?

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Ash
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Re: The castration

Post by Ash » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:56 am

"There was a skyscraper of mirrors on the TV. A man dressed in a suit and a cowboy hat got out of his car, walked toward the skyscraper."
I could be way off mark, but that was Dallas on the cancer woman's TV, and the "Eli" being called out could have been directed at Miss Ellie Ewing Farlow, a character in Dallas (matriarch of the Ewing family). Eli could have mingled the TV voice into her own morphine hallucinations.

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metoo
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Re: The castration

Post by metoo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:31 am

Ash wrote:I could be way off mark, but that was Dallas on the cancer woman's TV, and the "Eli" being called out could have been directed at Miss Ellie Ewing Farlow, a character in Dallas (matriarch of the Ewing family). Eli could have mingled the TV voice into her own morphine hallucinations.
No, this is quite correct. Dallas was big on TV in Sweden at the time. I made that connection, too, when I read that, it is quite obvious. I didn't, however, connect 'Eli' with 'Ellie', until now. Good thinking!
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Ash
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Re: The castration

Post by Ash » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:40 am

In fact this makes it more obvious-

"The signature melody of Dallas floated out into the room and Eli tore her head away from the woman's throat."

I can fully sympathise with Eli's attempt to-

"Have to get the cowboy-man to stop talking."

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