You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
Post Reply
User avatar
SFTifoso
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:47 pm

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by SFTifoso » Thu May 31, 2012 7:25 am

sauvin wrote:
SFTifoso wrote:
sauvin wrote:How would you judge who's worthy of destruction and who should be left unaccosted? Without knowing anything about your prospective victims apart from what immediately reaches the eyes, ears or nose, how would you assess that said prospective victim conforms or doesn't conform to whatever guidelines you choose to follow in reality rather than just apparently?
Is it just better to just kill indiscriminately then?
I believe you begin to perceive one of the major problems of applying human morality to a vampire.
Yeah you're right. Even Eli has trouble controlling the hunger. After thinking about it some more, I think my very first victims would probably the most vulnerable I could find. Homeless people, prostitutes, old people, and yes probably children. It's horrible to be a vampire. Just think after you get done getting your fill, and the person is still alive pleading for their life, and your task now is to break his/her neck.
Wolfchild wrote: So, honestly, how many of you could go out tonight and kill someone even if you believe they are some sort of dreg of society?
Even if you have supernatural abilities, a gunshot to the face is still a gunshot to the face. You would have to take your victims' ability to fight back into consideration. So, as much as I would like to go killing gang members and criminals, those would probably risky targets, not worth the trouble. What if you manage to sink your teeth into them, but they manage to get away. Now you just created another vampire, and probably a very dangerous vampire if it was a criminal. I think, even if you mean to spare those "good" people in society, ultimately what it will come down to is looking for easy prey.
a_contemplative_life wrote:I think I'd Google the top three medical centers in the country that deal with blood disoders and march myself into the nearest one. Tell them clearly what is wrong with me, and prove it with my weird physiology. Then I'd tell them that I'd be their patient and allow them to study me in exchange for total secrecy and a full blood supply. If they don't agree, go to the next center. If science couldn't cure me, I would try to use the contacts I'd made during my workup to develop a circle of donors.
The thing with that is you can't be certain the CIA or your country's government/military won't pay you a visit. You're a powerful being, and powerful men will always seek more power. And after they find out the infection can be passed on oh so easily, you become expandable... actually you become a liability since you're not part of the government.
"It doesn't get easier, you just go faster" - Greg Lemond (cycling legend)

User avatar
Ash
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by Ash » Thu May 31, 2012 8:45 am

The old cynical vampire-woman that Eli meets explains what most of those infected ultimately decide to do - top themselves. Explaining that's why so very few vampires are around.
It's questionable whether or not the choice of suicide would be out of self-pity of living such a terrible life, or as the result of the burden of dead people on ones conscience, as the woman suggests, or a bit of both probably.
JAL suggests that virtually all vampires kill themselves, as Virginia did. And I'm surprised that us, who know the horrors of what being a vampire means, have not suggested their "next move" would be different from what Virginia chose to do.
It would seem that the only vampires still hanging around are the cynical evil ones lacking morality, like the Lord and the hollow woman, and perhaps the child ones like Eli who are too young to fully comprehend the concept morality.
As I wouldn't like to put myself in the above two scenarios, my "next move" would probably to do what Virginia did.

User avatar
EEA
Posts: 4739
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 5:53 pm

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by EEA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:07 am

I think I would choose Virginia's path too if I would not be able to get help. But before that I would ask the person who turn me why did they?

User avatar
mackousko
Posts: 1350
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:51 pm
Location: Slovenská republika

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by mackousko » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:56 am

I think you underestimate true nature of men. The will to survive is really a strong feeling. Wars tell us that even people who thought they could not kill have realized they can. Not only that, they even could turn the killing into routine thing after rather short period of time. My answer on the question is : I don´t know for sure what i would do after turning into vampire. :think:
Image

User avatar
SFTifoso
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:47 pm

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by SFTifoso » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:41 am

I don't think you need to be some sort of psychopath to not commit suicide as a vampire. The real question is, is it possible to be a killing machine without actually being evil? IMO yes, it is very much possible. A vampire is basically a predator, not much different than predators in the wild; many of which eat their own kind. This, again, is injecting human morality into a vampire mind.

Eli, although he's 12, is very much capable of telling right from wrong. He is miserable, and even tries to commit suicide, but the will to survive overcomes him. You don't have to be a child to feel this.
mackousko wrote:I think you underestimate true nature of men. The will to survive is really a strong feeling. Wars tell us that even people who thought they could not kill have realized they can. Not only that, they even could turn the killing into routine thing after rather short period of time. My answer on the question is : I don´t know for sure what i would do after turning into vampire. :think:
Killing can be a very normal thing, it simply is that it's looked down on in our modern culture. There are so many examples in history where people killed, rather routinely, and yet they had wives, children, etc., and where able to show loving human emotions.
"It doesn't get easier, you just go faster" - Greg Lemond (cycling legend)

User avatar
sauvin
Moderator
Posts: 3410
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:52 am
Location: A cornfield in heartland USA

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by sauvin » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:14 am

SFTifoso wrote:I don't think you need to be some sort of psychopath to not commit suicide as a vampire. The real question is, is it possible to be a killing machine without actually being evil? IMO yes, it is very much possible. A vampire is basically a predator, not much different than predators in the wild; many of which eat their own kind. This, again, is injecting human morality into a vampire mind.

Eli, although he's 12, is very much capable of telling right from wrong. He is miserable, and even tries to commit suicide, but the will to survive overcomes him. You don't have to be a child to feel this.
I wonder how the rabbit feels about the eagle, or how the deer regards the mountain lion. "Evil" is a highly subjective term in human communities, shifting in shape and colour across the millennia and the continents according to the hasards humans perceive (or misapprehend) in their respective times and places. The eagle or the mountain lion, if it could speak, might simply shrug and say "I didn't ask to be born a predator", but Eli had not been born a predator, and had not chosen to become one. With her having remained conspicuously human across the centuries, it's not necessarily "injection" to shoulder her with the weight of moral judgement, and her "evil" could be very clearly seen through the eyes of her victims' survivors.
SFTifoso wrote:
mackousko wrote:I think you underestimate true nature of men. The will to survive is really a strong feeling. Wars tell us that even people who thought they could not kill have realized they can. Not only that, they even could turn the killing into routine thing after rather short period of time. My answer on the question is : I don´t know for sure what i would do after turning into vampire. :think:
Killing can be a very normal thing, it simply is that it's looked down on in our modern culture. There are so many examples in history where people killed, rather routinely, and yet they had wives, children, etc., and where able to show loving human emotions.
And had Eli been born in such a time or place while she'd been a real child?

But that line of argument is moot within the context of the OP's question. We are ourselves not Eli, and never could be for precisely that reason: we were not born where and when Eli had been born, had not been reared as Elias had been, and have not lived through the periods of history that she has. What's more, we are not frozen into the mind of a preteen child; most of us don't really remember what it is to even be twelve. We are what we are, born in our various respective birthplaces less than a full span of human life; I believe I am one of the forum's older members, and my own lifetime covers just over a mere half century. We are most of us born into a modern culture, with modern sensibilities and modern attitudes towards purposeless killing.

While it's foolish to suggest that we cannot kill simply because most of us have never been called up to do so, it strikes me as similarly foolish to assume that we could adjust to a lifestyle that requires the murder of two or three innocent people per week for no other purpose than simply to sustain ourselves. We would become one of the very things that we've been taught to despise almost above anything else, and we couldn't even provide ourselves with the flimsy excuse of "serving the country" (said excuse being very cold comfort to the numbers of young people returning to the US from the Viet Nam nightmare with broken minds to match their shattered bodies) or "performing a public service" (since we could never really be sure that the street bum we just put away wasn't just the unremembered and unwanted detritus he appeared to be).

I do not believe I could survive such a plight.
Fais tomber les barrières entre nous qui sommes tous des frères

User avatar
a_contemplative_life
Moderator
Posts: 5905
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:06 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by a_contemplative_life » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:17 am

Yup, you can condition yourself to just about any behavior... and a healthy dose of amorality helps, too.
Image

User avatar
Jameron
Posts: 2728
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:09 pm
Location: Stoke on Trent, UK

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by Jameron » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:19 am

Wolfchild wrote:So, honestly, how many of you could go out tonight and kill someone even if you believe they are some sort of dreg of society?
No, of course not. But I am a human and not a vampire, you are applying human morals to a vampiric dilemma.

I agree with your view of a JALverse vampire having a tenuous control of their life. But one thing these vampires would have to deal with that we don't, is to kill to survive, kill or die. I don't have that need, and so I can't say whether my reticence to killing would persist if I did have that necessity.

If we look at these 'apparently' unjustified shootings when someone picks up a gun and starts to shoot people before they are either gunned down by the police, or subdued and arrested. One thing these people have in common is that they are able to justify their actions to themselves ... if they can do this, why not us? What might stop us is our connections to society as a whole and to individuals like family and friends. These killers are often outsiders, rejected by society (or at least the part of society that they yearn for connections with), disconnected individuals much like Oskar was fast becoming. My point here is that as a vampire, one would soon become disconnected from society and individuals one once cared for. This enforced apartheid would have its effect on one's psychology, and make it even easier to become a cold hearted killer without remorse, pretty much like the wigged landowner who turned Elias into Eli.

The one thing I see that is unavoidable for JALverse vampires is that sooner or later you will become cold and distanced, and immeasurably despondent. There can be no 'mixing' with the humans you live amongst, the risk of being uncovered would be far too great.

Eli was lucky to stumble across Oskar when he was at the cusp of turning his back on society and moral boundaries, far enough gone to not be horrified by her but not too far gone that he pushed her away also. And don't forget, Eli wasn't looking for a friend, and neither would any other vampire, including us if we were turned. Ours would be a hateful and desolate existence that we would be forced by circumstance to suffer alone.

.
"For a few seconds Oskar saw through Eli’s eyes. And what he saw was … himself. Only much better, more handsome, stronger than what he thought of himself. Seen with love."

User avatar
mackousko
Posts: 1350
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:51 pm
Location: Slovenská republika

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by mackousko » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:50 pm

sauvin wrote: and we couldn't even provide ourselves with the flimsy excuse of "serving the country" (said excuse being very cold comfort to the numbers of young people returning to the US from the Viet Nam nightmare with broken minds to match their shattered bodies) or "performing a public service"

I do not believe I could survive such a plight.
You talk about soldiers who must to live and fight under very discomfort conditions. Who have felt cold, were weakened because of various illnesses. Just exhausted. And on top of that the fear someone could kill them was still there. Of course it was too much for some of them. It only rarely happens to soldiers who are good fed and have enough rest and are much stronger than the opponent.
A vampire have to deal only with the morality. A vampire feels no discomfort, is powerful never sick, feels no cold. And even the second brain is helping with that "killing part". I have said it before. Real predators in nature feel joy while killing the prey. Why should we think the king of the predators feels not the same.

Wolfchild wrote:
So, honestly, how many of you could go out tonight and kill someone even if you believe they are some sort of dreg of society?
I think this is beyond extreme. But because this is all only academic debate, OK let´s play. What about to try the second "option" in this case. Just commit suicide and you will be sure you never ever will do any harm to no one. :think:
Image

User avatar
a_contemplative_life
Moderator
Posts: 5905
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:06 am
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: You just became a vampire, what's your next move?

Post by a_contemplative_life » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:24 pm

mackousko wrote: A vampire have to deal only with the morality. A vampire feels no discomfort, is powerful never sick, feels no cold. And even the second brain is helping with that "killing part". I have said it before. Real predators in nature feel joy while killing the prey. Why should we think the king of the predators feels not the same.
Your vision of sleek, powerful vampires seems more Dracula-esque than "Eliform." I think JAL worked diligently to make Eli the opposite of your view.
Image

Post Reply

Return to “Let The Right One In (Novel)”