No, I just want to be with you

[genie47]

For me it is the moments of growing up with my twin brother. We held hands, we slept and snuggled together, we piggybacked each other playing in the pool, everything thing that is naturally between Oskar and Eli. Until we entered adolescence and wondered WTF are we sleeping in the same bed with each other!

[lombano]

I think someone's pointed that out about Eli, that since he had siblings and was from a poor family he surely shared a bed with a brother. So in that respect it would have seemed entirely natural to climb into Oskar's bed when he felt lonely. Whereas for Oskar, an only child, it probably seemed a more extraordinary act of trust, which helped give him the courage to ask Eli to go steady.

[lombano]

To expand on my post, Eli climbing into Oskar's bed is, for Eli, probably like a (non-coed) sleepover or like it was with his siblings. For Oskar, a 'girl' climbing into his bed in the middle of the night isn't like a normal sleepover and he has no siblings so it's not like sharing a bed with a sibling - I'm not saying Oskar is thinking of sex or thinks Eli is offering sex, but I think he does see it as an extraordinary act that brings them much closer and that shows a lot of trust on Eli's side. Then when he, unwittingly encouraged by Eli to do so, asks him to go steady, Eli I think realises what the situation might look like - being far more experienced in the ways of the world than Oskar, he immediately worries about the sexual connotations of the situation - let's not forget that Hakan is surely not the only pedophile he has encountered. I would imagine when Eli was raised it as not considered decent for an ostensible female to climb naked into a male's bed who wasn't her husband. Poor Oskar doesn't even want to kiss, of course. I think until being asked to go steady in this scene Eli simply forgot Oskar saw him as a girl.

[a_contemplative_life]

Why do I have such a fondness for these memories? Well there are a lot of memories of my youth that bring back fond memories, and they all seem to mean more to me emotionally than anything I can remember as an adult. I think that it is because they were fresh, new, first time innocent emotions unspoiled by the adult world. I got to experience all of this with my Italian neighbours and haven't felt anything like that ever again. . . . I have been in love as an adult a couple of times, or thought I was, but again it isn't quite the same getting that first kiss from an adult woman, while it does have a thrill factor and always makes me feel awesome, it just isn't that very first kiss.
. . . It's entirely possible that I can experience something similar to the feelings these memories evoke, I can always hope, but if not then that is what these memories are for. . . . .

It seemed to me when I thought about this notion of "first love" or whatever we should call it, that maybe one of the things that makes it different from our experiences later in life is that it is unburdened by any feeling of obligation or responsibility toward the other person, or any feelings of sexuality. It thus can be unfettered by any thought or emotion other than that pure sense of affection for that person. That's why I asked whether what you experienced was qualitatively different from your later experiences.

In Corinthians 1:13, immediately after Paul's well-known characterization of love, he writes, "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." In other words, I take on the burdens and responsibilities of being an adult, and all that entails. Yet, Jesus says in Matthew 19:14, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” He also says, in the Beatitudes, "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God." Matthew 5:8.

So what you wrote led me to ponder about whether life is really about our attempt, having matured, to move back to an earlier state of innocence, although we are now adults and have been affected by worldly influences. How we regain that lost innocence is, I think, a very formidable challenge, but having been around for almost half a century, it is also one which I am firmly convinced we are called upon to strive for. If you believe in Heaven, perhaps the sort of love that is enjoyed there between people will bear some similarity to those first feelings of love that we experienced as a child.

[chuck_u._farley]

Hi,

your thoughts made me think about Eli’s and Oskar’s possibly future. Having read your post suggest me that they may have a common future, though a twisted one. I try to summarize my thoughts, and if i write something that was written before, then sorry, it’s just easier to write for me this way.

On the physical side
I guess sex will happen between them later on. It’s only a question of when. As Oskar grows, his interest in the opposite sex will rise to a level when things just happen. That’s natural and i consider celibacy more unnatural than being in love with a vampire. I dont think Eli would be unfamiliar with sex, rather the opposite, i figure she has had a quite a lot of sexual experiences, though i doubt they have ever been joyful or have ever brought pleasure to Eli. But she knows that there is such thing as sex and this strange thing gives so much pleasure to men that they are even willing to die for it (for example Hakan and his likely predecessors). As I consider her as a girl by choice, i think she used her body as tool in order to survive when it was necessary. She is a survivor under extreme circumstances. So on one hand she has ideas and experiences on sex, however bad ones. But despites all this, she loves Oskar, and she loves physical interaction with him. She slept over at him on her own initiative and started caressing him (she loves to touch Oskar and loves being touched by him). Even he asked her wether she wanted to go steady or not, her first reaction was confusion, and then offering herself (wanna kiss?) with some shock. As if she had thought „This worked out with the others, what does he want from me?” She only was relieved when Oskar rejected this idea, hinting her that Oskar was something special, not just another guy. I guess this moment was very important for her, coz she started to continue the sleepovers and initiated the kissings, which were described in such way which suggested me a love, not just a „puppy love”. (I never kissed like that „innocently”.) And while here was kissing the main course, i guess we all know it’s just an appetizer. Oskar attended sexual education and saw porn mags as well, so he knows about the „wild thing” and sooner or later as he ages, he will want more. Though i consider Eli as a heavily damaged person, lets not forget that she is in love with Oskar and became dependent of him. So i guess she will overcome her hesitations and give in to Oskar, even might accelerate the process just to show him much she loves him. Like when she ate the candy. I guess it’s a very human thing. Someone wrote that making love would be impossible due to the missing parts. I think Eli as a vampire is able to form her body, it was described in the novel, i am sure she saw some things, so transforming her body would not be such a hindrance for her. And even if she could not, there other ways to please and we dont wanna go into details, right? I guess making love to Oskar would not scare her, even if she would not/could not have an orgasm, the physical sensation to hold her love and make him happy would give her enough joy.

On the mental side.
This is my bigger problem. As i was reading different opions, i could not get a thing. Most post i read made me the impression that many think that their love would be like one in a retirement home where old people hold their hands and want nothing more from life. Or like the Astor-pair on the Titanic, the ship is sinking, that band is playing, they are lying in the bed, what a lovely night, isnt it, dear? Or are we walking in the sunset together on yellow brick road? I am on a qiute a different opinion.
Oskar is young, has little experiences on life (and of them most are not too good), now he found something beautiful, so i think he would want more, he would want to LIVE. He has just left his old life, and starts a new one. He wants new sensations. Going to places with her. He is in the age when the colors of life are vivid and and almost each day is a possible new adventure. Everything is black and white, something is either very good, or very bad. They love each other more than anything else, but like every couple, they fight. He might have been a little boy at the jungle gym, but on the train got much older.
Eli is in similar case, though she has bigger issues to cope with than Oskar. Lets omit now her eating disorder and focus on her love. As were are told, she has lived for approx. 200 years in plain misery. I guess there were periods between just bad and very bad. Now hello sunshine, Oskar enters. Eli thinks, omigod, i am alive and for a change i am relly happy. Oskar was an outcast as well, but he has the potential to change this, while Eli does not. Oskar gave up his life for Eli, and Eli her whole unlife, without the chance to revert. She is playing for very high stakes, coz what awaits her without Oskar? Feeding, sleeping, having to hang around with perverts in order to be able to survive.
Their love is in the fast line, as if they were climbing the Mount Everest with the TVG or the ICE. So here comes the big one, the „unconditional love”. I feel like everyone is talking like about Nessie: many have seen her, only there is little evidence. In my guess closest thing to unconditional love is parental love, but not love like being in love with a girl. Love is flame (especially at the beginning of a relationship), it has to burn and it indeed hurts. Love has limitations, and they are set by the other person’s love. Being in love means desire to possess as well. Of course this can and should be controlled (othervise it devours the loved one), but it cant be totally excluded. Some would rather die for their love than to be without her, or without her love.
Eli is very smart and intelligent, and i guess she will figure this out either conciously, or subconciously. I guess this would not emerge in this form in the mind of a 12 year old, but we are talking about brilliant vampire who is much (pre)mature than 12, but cant think like a 50 year old. She feels that to be with Oskar is a wonderful thing, and this will strengthen her utter fear of losing him. I guess the 3 strongest emotions are love, fear and curiosity (order may differ in each person’s case). All 3 feelings are connected to Oskar in her case, so she regularly will ask herself, what would be better for Oskar, letting/making him to go, or making him into a fulltime-partner? Or would she rather see Oskar get old and die? And what about of other women, they are physically superior compared to her and may even give birth to a baby? Dangerous competition. Time may change people. Eli is frozen in time. And i figure on one night Eli will be weak and turn Oskar into a vampire.
To which Oskar will eventually agree, coz almost all of his good memories are connected to Eli: first friend, first girlfriend, first kiss, and if that really should happen, than even his first sexual experiences. What can the human world offer for him compared to this?
So i think the chances are bigger for couple like (un)natural born killers. But without Mickey’s and Mallory’s madness. Just some bitterweet sadness.

[Wolfchild]

And even if she could not, there other ways to please and we dont wanna go into details, right?

Exactly right. I really believe that there could be interesting discussions along these lines: Discussions that are both interesting and devoid of salaciousness. Neither the novel nor the film hints at any sexuality between Oskar & Eli. In fact their ages were chosen carefully to put them right at the cusp of such things, but they are not there. Oskar is not there yet, and Eli will apparently never get there. As this story ends it leads many fans to speculate about what is to come. Speculation about what could happen as Oskar approaches puberty seems a valid topic for this web site. However these discussions will not take place in the open forums.

If people are really interested in pursuing them, I will set up a limited-access area of the forum for such conversations. Even then, it would NOT be a venue for erotica.

chuck_u._farley, I'm not trying to pick on you. I find nothing objectionable in your post. I am just concerned about the direction that discussion could take from this point.

I feel like everyone is talking like about Nessie: many have seen her, only there is little evidence.

This may be true, but stories about Nessie will always be interesting so long as they are told well. And this one certainly is.

[genie47]

Also in the spirit of the novel, this lack of sexuality served a big purpose.

It idealized the love. Lacenaire brought up the new Interview with JAL which Wolfchild posted which prompted me to remember some things I learnt about "romance".

I remembered Jacques Lacan who declared that courtly love “is an altogether refined way of making up for the absence of sexual relation by pretending that it is we who put up an obstacle to it.

It is an illusion!

A brilliant comment from him and which I would also say JAL has so brilliantly used to present this pure love between Oskar and Eli. Just as being a street magician dealt with illusions, JAL presented us with this illusion which got us jealous of Oskar and Eli. These fictional characters got it while we can never get it.

In the end, we are wowed like some of the magic JAL did on some interviews. How does he do it? In LTROI, we are amazed and jealous at Oskar and Eli. How do they love each other?

[chuck_u._farley]

chuck_u._farley írta:
And even if she could not, there other ways to please and we dont wanna go into details, right?

Exactly right. I really believe that there could be interesting discussions along these lines: Discussions that are both interesting and devoid of salaciousness. Neither the novel nor the film hints at any sexuality between Oskar & Eli. In fact their ages were chosen carefully to put them right at the cusp of such things, but they are not there. Oskar is not there yet, and Eli will apparently never get there. As this story ends it leads many fans to speculate about what is to come. Speculation about what could happen as Oskar approaches puberty seems a valid topic for this web site. However these discussions will not take place in the open forums.

If people are really interested in pursuing them, I will set up a limited-access area of the forum for such conversations. Even then, it would NOT be a venue for erotica.

chuck_u._farley, I'm not trying to pick on you. I find nothing objectionable in your post. I am just concerned about the direction that discussion could take from this point.

I feel like everyone is talking like about Nessie: many have seen her, only there is little evidence.

This may be true, but stories about Nessie will always be interesting so long as they are told well. And this one certainly is.

I apologize, if was rude to anyone, sorry, was not intended. I just tried to set up a logical build up. At least for me.
All i wanted was to point out, that i see there a chance.
And Loch Ness is still a nice place with or without Nessie, isnt it? So they may reach it, even when the ride might be rough. But (un)life is a journey, not a destination. i guess.

[Aurora]

I have to agree with Wolfie on this point. I'm aware that there are three things about the story as it is that I really like, but if these are changed it ruins the whole experience for me. They are:-

1.The love between Oskar and Eli isn't defined by any sexual attraction to the other.
2. Oskar isn't the next Hakan
3. The story ends where it does without any suggestion of what the future will bring for them.

While I'm quite happy to read any fan fiction that continues the story, if a sexual attraction is introduced then how is Oskar different to Hakan?

[gattoparde59]

I have kept away from this thread up until now, and rereading once again I am reminded why I wanted to stay away.

I don't see Eli and Oskar as having a sexual relationship. To me this is more like the relationship between two brothers, or a brother and a sister, or a parent and a child. People need the acceptance and physical affection that comes with love, apart from sexuality. I sometimes think the latter is only a vehicle for the former, forcing solitary creatures to seek out the affection that they really need. That is what Eli is doing in this story, seeking out the love and acceptance that she so desperately needs. Eli is a supernatural creature, capable of performing miracles, but Eli hates herself because she is a vampire. That Oskar loves Eli, and continues to accept Eli, all evidence to the contrary comes as a kind of miracle to for Eli. "I am this loathsome thing, and yet Oskar loves me."

As for the future, I think Lindqvist was wise to end the novel where he does. I can't see a happy prognosis for Eli and Oskar, if only because Eli lives in a different "time zone" from the rest of humanity. As Oskar notes in the novel, Eli will never grow up, Eli will always be a child.