Does Elias Still Need Eli?

[jkwilliams]

Most of us seem to think Eli looks and dresses the way he does because he doesn't really care what people think. Gender doesn't mean anything to him anymore and he's fine with who he is. (We're the ones who have a problem with it.)

What if that's not true?

..."And then when I wake up I'm ... little again. And weak. That's when I need help. That's maybe why I've been able to survive. Because I'm small. And people want to help me. But... for very different reasons."

For Eli to survive, he's had to attract and keep men who were willing to kill for him. The problem is, he really has nothing to offer them in return except himself. So, like it or not, he's had to do a lot of things he didn't want to do, including pretending to be a girl or boy. It sounds like the vampire lord wanted Elias to be something he wasn't and I get the feeling he's had to live like that ever since.

Everyone else looks at Eli and sees what they want to see, but when he looks at himself he sees nothing. He doesn't believe he's a girl, but he does hide being a boy. Something about that made it feel like Eli wasn't a real person, it was just a character Elias pretends to be so he can manipulate people. He even gave it its own name.

And the person in his arms was . . . Eli.
A boy. My friend. Yes.

Oskar finally accepts him as a boy but it makes me wonder how that might change Eli over time. Håkan notices the more time Eli spends with Oskar the more he regresses back to being a child. I can see that continuing until Eli looks and acts just like a regular boy again.

I'm kind of divided about that. Part of me doesn't want Eli to change at all, but the other part likes the idea of Elias having his boyhood back. What do you think?

[metoo]

Most of us seem to think Eli looks and dresses the way he does because he doesn't really care what people think. Gender doesn't mean anything to him anymore and he's fine with who he is. (We're the ones who have a problem with it.)

What if that's not true?

..."And then when I wake up I'm ... little again. And weak. That's when I need help. That's maybe why I've been able to survive. Because I'm small. And people want to help me. But... for very different reasons."

For Eli to survive, he's had to attract and keep men who were willing to kill for him.

The novel doesn't specify the gender of Eli's helpers, though. Some may have been women. Or couples.

The problem is, he really has nothing to offer them in return except himself. So, like it or not, he's had to do a lot of things he didn't want to do, including pretending to be a girl or boy. It sounds like the vampire lord wanted Elias to be something he wasn't and I get the feeling he's had to live like that ever since.

Everyone else looks at Eli and sees what they want to see, but when he looks at himself he sees nothing. He doesn't believe he's a girl, but he does hide being a boy. Something about that made it feel like Eli wasn't a real person, it was just a character Elias pretends to be so he can manipulate people. He even gave it its own name.

And the person in his arms was . . . Eli.
A boy. My friend. Yes.

Oskar finally accepts him as a boy but it makes me wonder how that might change Eli over time. Håkan notices the more time Eli spends with Oskar the more he regresses back to being a child. I can see that continuing until Eli looks and acts just like a regular boy again.

I'm kind of divided about that. Part of me doesn't want Eli to change at all, but the other part likes the idea of Elias having his boyhood back. What do you think?

It's true that Eli hasn't anything to offer but himself, but isn't that the case for all of us? And don't all of us prefer to be wanted because of the persons we are?

But I guess you didn't mean it that way, but rather that Eli didn't have anything to offer but doing things that his helpers requested. Håkan wanted Eli to satisfy his sexual desires, others might have had other despicable fancies. However, that excludes the other end of the spectrum of "very different reasons". For all we now, some of Eli's helpers might have been decent people.

Personally, I don't think Eli actually saw "nothing" when looking at himself. That was just something he said to avoid a tricky subject at a time when he still believed he needed to be a girl for Oskar to accept him. Furthermore, pretending to be a girl or a boy wasn't among the things he had to unwillingly do, because he didn't need to. I particularly like this excerpt from part IX of Let the Long Night End, which in my opinion is spot on:

“I don’t pretend to be anything. I just am, and people assume.”

So rather than being nothing, I think Eli had a strong sense of being something, or rather, someone. A unique and complex person. Therefore he didn't like to be reduced to a label and put into a box. He was living on blood, yes, but that didn't define him.

"Vad ska jag kalla dig för? Det här som du är."
"Eli."

"What shall I call you, then? This thing that you are?"
"Eli." My translation.

[Pissball]

In the english version of LTODD the couple is described as a boy and a girl. More so, Eli is depicted as a slender girl with long, black hair

I remark "long" because ELi si described with somehow shorter hair in LTROI and in comparision to Oskar who had a haircut in Barcelona: Oskar had changed his hairstyle; it was cut short in a way that was more fashionable among young people today.
Says nothing about the clothes I think, but taking LTROI finale with the yellow dress, Im inclined to that, in conclusion I don't see a future with a more masculine/boyish Eli.

Also, other than sexual stuff, I don't see the advantages for Eli in crossdressing, he is still pretty, and more important a child and defenseless, so any adult will help him and then being eated, just like Jocke. Even more, Hakan the sexual creep in this, was into boys, so not even there Eli needed a female appareance.

[sauvin]

In the english version of LTODD the couple is described as a boy and a girl. More so, Eli is depicted as a slender girl with long, black hair

I remark "long" because ELi si described with somehow shorter hair in LTROI and in comparision to Oskar who had a haircut in Barcelona: Oskar had changed his hairstyle; it was cut short in a way that was more fashionable among young people today.
Says nothing about the clothes I think, but taking LTROI finale with the yellow dress, Im inclined to that, in conclusion I don't see a future with a more masculine/boyish Eli.

Also, other than sexual stuff, I don't see the advantages for Eli in crossdressing, he is still pretty, and more important a child and defenseless, so any adult will help him and then being eated, just like Jocke. Even more, Hakan the sexual creep in this, was into boys, so not even there Eli needed a female appareance.

But are all creeps attracted to boys?

[Pissball]

But are all creeps attracted to boys?

Absolutely not, I would say that at least 80% of the "casual" sex offenders are behind females (regardless of the age, given the situation) although strictly pedophilia and sex trafficking mobs, pedo rings, etc are another stuff. The closest thing I saw about that is the tv show "The Alienist" (it's about a serial killer behind boy-prostitutes) in that case I can see an Elias taking the female persona of "Eli" for such purpose, but that is the victorian era, and Eli is a vagabond with his own rules.

Also, there is a difference between Eli "hunting" victims (it could be someone distracted like Virginia or someone deceived like Jocke, it's not as if every man in the street is a rapist, so they would help and be off-guard with a 12-year-old boy too) and Eli looking for a "guardian" which I suppose must be a low life, psychopath, lonely, creep, sociopath, or someone with a strange moral or a fanatic with a goal (a religious, a scientist, a ocultist), basically a very specific target.
That's why I put other than sexual stuff.

[metoo]

I'm kind of divided about that. Part of me doesn't want Eli to change at all, but the other part likes the idea of Elias having his boyhood back. What do you think?

Hm, it seems that I forgot to reply to the actual question.

So: John set out to create an androgynous character. Thus, that's what Eli is supposed to be.

However, given that Eli's new companion is a boy, it might be that their interaction will develop a boyish rather than a girlish flavour. It seems like this is what happens in the novel, the games we see Oskar and Eli play are quite boyish - testing who runs the fastest, fighting with pretense swords, wrestling.

That said, I know a couple of girls who in their pre-school age used to prefer playing with the boys rather than with the girls. And I guess that some boys would prefer to play with the girls, if they were allowed to. So what's girlish or boyish, really?

To complicate things, Oskar comes through as a rather quiet boy. He likes to read but perhaps doesn't like to put himself at physical risk, as boys are expected to do. He has troubles doing the exercise at the gym lesson, and he apparently isn't chosen among the first for ball game teams. On the other hand, he finally succeeded doing that jump, and he also has his special thing with the swings, which seems rather dangerous. Perhaps Oskar likes being with Eli so much just because Eli doesn't require him to choose side, as to speak?

So, to conclude, I don't think Eli would have his boy-hood back, but rather that he would have a somewhat gender-agnostic perpetual childhood with Oskar.

[dongregg]

I don't think Eli would have his boy-hood back, but rather that he would have a somewhat gender-agnostic perpetual childhood with Oskar.

Well, metoo, this is a good conclusion to a well-presented case!

[PeteMork]

I don't think Eli would have his boy-hood back, but rather that he would have a somewhat gender-agnostic perpetual childhood with Oskar.

Well, metoo, this is a good conclusion to a well-presented case!

Yep. I think this comes closer to the truth. Gender-agnostic. I like it.

[zanovia]

I don't think Eli would have his boy-hood back, but rather that he would have betfred promo code gender-agnostic perpetual childhood with Oskar.

Well, metoo, this is a good conclusion to a well-presented case!

Yep. I think this comes closer to the truth. Gender-agnostic. I like it.

I like it too!

[Judeţ-Safi RMK]

I don't think Eli's androgynous / "feminine" appearance is necessarily solely for survival; it could be that's how he prefers to express himself. That doesn't diminish his "boyhood", unless by "boyhood" one means stereotypically boyish things. There's no reason being a boy and having a conventionally "feminine" aesthetic, having long hair, etc. have to be at odds with each other. Boys can like those things, too, and still be boys, just like girls can like "boyish" things and still be girls

So I think he will maintain many of his same characteristics simply because that's how he is: in some ways conventionally "feminine" and in other ways conventionally "masculine"