So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

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lombano
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by lombano » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:43 pm

Klesk wrote:
lombano wrote: In my experience, it has worked, though not necessarily literally hitting back physically. It worked in grade school and it's worked in the workplace.
But we are talking about hitting back hard physically and that is something you don't do at your workplace, I guess.
No, I don't. But the principle is exactly the same. I don't know if you've watched In a Better World, but that is even a closer analogue to my workplace experience - as Christian says, if someone publicly bullies the new guy and the new guys does nothing, then everyone will do the same. But if the new guy fights back, esp. if that retaliation inflicts a cost on the bully, then the new guy will in most cases not be bullied further. Then again, my own pet theory is that while some bullies may be genuine psychopaths (like Jimmy) or otherwise disturbed, most do it simply because they can get away with it, and are used to getting away with it.
lombano wrote: Yes, but if it doesn't work, and Oskar doesn't go with Eli, he's toast and why exactly would Eli take that risk? Deterrence has already failed, and ripping their heads off is a pretty effective way to neutralize the threat for good.
The first thing Eli could do is to kick Jonny into the pool and Oscar would be save.[/quote]

Safe for five minutes. Eli's actions ensure a permanent solution.
Klesk wrote:Therefore it doesn't matter whether the bullies are dead or he hit back hard because he will never see them again.
Yes, but Eli doesn't know that for a fact during the pool scene.
dongregg wrote: The school deals with the issue (arson/or Ávila getting beat up) by meting out the usual severe punishment--Jimmy is banned from coming onto school grounds and the other boys get a stern talking to.
Let's take it a bit further. Take the film's ending as Oskar's dying fantasy (a plausible interpretation if we do not appeal to the book or interviews). What would the authorities do, even if the police walked in on them as Oskar died? I doubt the younger kids would get anything worse than a stern talking to. Maybe a psychologist would ask them if they were upset while Jimmy murdered Oskar. Perhaps Jimmy would also be let off, threatened with a sterner lecture if he killed anyone else. I doubt he'd get anything worse than a few months at borstal, as he's a minor and so on. Now, I've never seen the inside of a prison or borstal anywhere, much less in Sweden. But, regarding those in Sweden, I wouldn't be surprised to learn I've stayed in worse hotels, in terms of the material conditions of the cells and so on.
We don't know how much of this Eli knows or suspects. But I'm guessing back in Eli's day they would all just have been hanged for murder, and so I'm guessing from Eli's POV Jimmy et al. have carte blanche from their society (parents, school, police) to do whatever they please to Oskar, up to and including murder. If Oskar can't deter them, then would it be surprising if Eli concluded killing them is the only effective, durable solution? Or, maybe, that even if Oskar escaped them (by running away) they'd just do the same to someone else? Could it be that Eli sees them as, essentially, rabid dogs that must be put down (and yes, I do see the huge irony of this).
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by sauvin » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:52 pm

lombano wrote:We don't know how much of this Eli knows or suspects. But I'm guessing back in Eli's day they would all just have been hanged for murder, and so I'm guessing from Eli's POV Jimmy et al. have carte blanche from their society (parents, school, police) to do whatever they please to Oskar, up to and including murder. If Oskar can't deter them, then would it be surprising if Eli concluded killing them is the only effective, durable solution? Or, maybe, that even if Oskar escaped them (by running away) they'd just do the same to someone else? Could it be that Eli sees them as, essentially, rabid dogs that must be put down (and yes, I do see the huge irony of this).
Seeing a reflexion of herself, maybe? What are bullies, anyway, if not a kind of emotional or psychological vampire?
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metoo
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by metoo » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:04 pm

sauvin wrote:Seeing a reflexion of herself, maybe? What are bullies, anyway, if not a kind of emotional or psychological vampire?
Yes, bullies feed upon their victims' misery. But Eli is no vampire, you know...
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Klesk
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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by Klesk » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:39 pm

lombano wrote: No, I don't. But the principle is exactly the same. I don't know if you've watched In a Better World, but that is even a closer analogue to my workplace experience - as Christian says, if someone publicly bullies the new guy and the new guys does nothing, then everyone will do the same. But if the new guy fights back, esp. if that retaliation inflicts a cost on the bully, then the new guy will in most cases not be bullied further. Then again, my own pet theory is that while some bullies may be genuine psychopaths (like Jimmy) or otherwise disturbed, most do it simply because they can get away with it, and are used to getting away with it.
I understand you. In my childhood I hit back hard and the problem is when it is too disproportionate than you are the genuine psychopath in the eyes of others. That is why you had to be cautious not to loose the fight on the propaganda front by doing unnecessary and too brutal actions. This weakens your position, isolates you and make you more attackable. It is something that happed to Oscar as well as to these two children in “In a Better World”.

By the way Carnage by Roman Polański is about the same topic, isn't it? :mrgreen:
A creature of the night, that carries the light in itself.

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Re: So I Finally Got to Watch LMI too ;)

Post by lombano » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:48 am

metoo wrote:
sauvin wrote:Seeing a reflexion of herself, maybe? What are bullies, anyway, if not a kind of emotional or psychological vampire?
Yes, bullies feed upon their victims' misery. But Eli is no vampire, you know...
I was thinking more that "the world" sees her as a rabid dog, or at any rate film Lacke probably does (book Lacke sees her more as Jimmy with superpowers) and probably Virginia as well. In any case, Eli may well see bullies' cruelty as merely another point along the continuum occupied by, say, the vampire lord - a difference of degree but not of kind.
Bli mig lite.

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