Eli can jump house walls without permission?

[ElisLove]

Like this:

I found no scene like this in book

PS: Whereas the house has an owner and he needs permission to enter.

[metoo]

Eli apparently was able to enter the stairwell leading to Oskar's apartment without a specific invitation. He also could enter various parts of the basement of the house where he and Oskar lived - also the part where Tommy's "club room" was situated.

But he needed an invitation to the pool house. Or, at least, he thought he needed one. He also needed an invitation to the club room.

My view is that Eli needs an invitation to enter homes, as well as other indoor spaces that have been claimed by someone, like the club room. But there is a continuum between public and private spaces, so the question amounts to whether the effect also has a varying degree. If it has, Eli might be able to enter that walled garden, but feel a slight discomfort. Maybe a prolonged stay there would have effects on his health, reducing the time he had before needing to feed again.

Some pseudo-scientific musings:
The bleeding effect may behave like an s-curve (disregard the labelling of the axes):

In this case, an effect grows steadily when something changes, but the speed of change is much higher in a certain region that in the rest of cases. For Eli this might mean that the bleeding effect grows slowly but stays mostly harmless as the 'privacy' of spaces grows. However, at a certain level of 'privacy', the effect grows quickly to dangerous levels.

[ElisLove]

Interesting theory, metoo

[jkwilliams]

I can remember at least a couple of times in the novel where Eli becomes intoxicated from someone's blood.(Once from morphine and the other from alcohol in Lacke's blood.) That made me wonder if the invitation rule would still apply if Eli were so incapacitated he didn't know what he was doing?

Does bleeding out come from some absolute physical rule or is it the result of some kind of inner conflict?

A simple invitation may not seem like much to us but the human side of a vampire might need that little bit of absolution in order to cope. I mean, if someone invites you in then you're not entirely to blame for what happens next. That might also explain why Håkan doesn't seem to need permission to enter rooms. He no longer has a conscience, he's dead.

[PeteMork]

Actually, I kind of like metoo's theory. It allows for a lot of ambiguity, which is the rule rather than the exception in the real world of property ownership or control.

[ElisLove]

I can remember at least a couple of times in the novel where Eli becomes intoxicated from someone's blood.(Once from morphine and the other from alcohol in Lacke's blood.) That made me wonder if the invitation rule would still apply if Eli were so incapacitated he didn't know what he was doing?

I not think is an intoxication, but an effect of the drugs in blood. Around, we conclude that Eli has metabolism. This also explains why Eli has heartbeat.

[jkwilliams]

I not think is an intoxication, but an effect of the drugs in blood. Around, we conclude that Eli has metabolism. This also explains why Eli has heartbeat.

Yeah I know, Eli seems to absorb whatever is in the blood of his victims.

In the old woman's house, he becomes so messed up on the morphine in her blood he starts hallucinating and can barely function. It makes me wonder what would have happened in that situation if he'd passed out and been discovered? If paramedics took him to the hospital, would an "unconscious" Eli still begin bleeding when they wheeled him through the doors?

I was just wondering if needing permission was really a physical thing or something else. Eliform vampires bleed but I'm not sure what causes it.

I think about silly things like that. Just ignore me.

[Ash]

I think it has been mentioned before that Eli didn't ask permission to enter the hospital, but did ask at the pool house. While both being similar public amenities.
It was thought to be a little slip-up by John/Tomas.
However, meetoo's s-curve might be in play - at the hospital Eli only needed to enter and talk, but at the pool house she needed to be locked and loaded with her full powers at disposal. Works for me anyway.

[Marok]

I think it has been mentioned before that Eli didn't ask permission to enter the hospital, but did ask at the pool house. While both being similar public amenities.
It was thought to be a little slip-up by John/Tomas.
However, meetoo's s-curve might be in play - at the hospital Eli only needed to enter and talk, but at the pool house she needed to be locked and loaded with her full powers at disposal. Works for me anyway.

On top of that it seems to me Eli chose a rather unusual entrance at the pool. I might be wrong but I had the impression Eli asked to be invited at something like an emergency exit? At a door you’re not supposed to enter the pool house, hence requesting an explicit invitation. Skipping the entrance hall and lockers, the route people usually take, and lastly smashing through a window – better be invited, public place or not.
At the hospital, taking the front entrance and asking at the reception, that’s what you’re supposed to do, therefore no preceding invitation required?

Apart from that, metoo’s theory sounds good to me as well.

In the old woman's house, he becomes so messed up on the morphine in her blood he starts hallucinating and can barely function. It makes me wonder what would have happened in that situation if he'd passed out and been discovered? If paramedics took him to the hospital, would an "unconscious" Eli still begin bleeding when they wheeled him through the doors?

I was just wondering if needing permission was really a physical thing or something else. Eliform vampires bleed but I'm not sure what causes it.

I think about silly things like that. Just ignore me.

Nah, that should not be ignored, it’s an interesting question.
Is the whole invitation demeanor a physical thing or more like something mental, an “inner conflict”, like you put it?
This unfolds a whole new set of questions. Like, as you said, what if paramedics took care of Eli, would her/his unconsciousness suspend the bleeding? And if yes, what happens if Eli becomes conscious again in a hospital room? Or would being dragged/carried/moved into such places count as an invitation? It’s not Eli entering by her/his own means, other people make Eli enter, would that count as an unspoken invitation or are the spoken words still required?
Sounds like something for the fan fiction department, if it hasn’t been covered already!

[jkwilliams]

"But seriously. What happens if I don't do it?"

"Don't. Start." Eli gave a thin smile. "You want to see? What happens? Do you? Is that what you want?"

Eli said it in a way that was clearly intended for Oskar to say no: the promise of something terrible. But Oskar swallowed and said: "Yes. I do. Show me."

Since Eli is offering to show Oskar what happens, we know that breaking the invitation rule isn't necessarily fatal because it's happened at least once before. So, I'm guessing that if it became obvious Oskar wasn't going to give him permission to stay, he could have just run from the apartment and stopped the process. Right?...

If that's the case then it would be like seeing how long you could hold your breath. Eli could enter just about any property as long as he didn't stay too long.