Discussion (spoilers)

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's short story collection Låt de gamla drömmarna dö
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Swaefheard
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Swaefheard » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:26 am

There's maybe a nod to one of Eli's notes to Oskar, quoting from Romeo and Juliet.

"If Stefan had been a Montague from Ibsengatan and Karin a Capulet from Holbergsgatan, perhaps they might have woven their escape plans behind my ticket booth. To run away means life, to linger means certain death."

I haven't got round to ordering the Swedish version of LTODD yet (only have LDRKI so far!) so I don't know whether that is a paraphrase or whether the original is the same as in LDRKI (Att fly är livet, men att dröja döden).

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metoo
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by metoo » Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:12 pm

Swaefheard wrote:There's maybe a nod to one of Eli's notes to Oskar, quoting from Romeo and Juliet.

"If Stefan had been a Montague from Ibsengatan and Karin a Capulet from Holbergsgatan, perhaps they might have woven their escape plans behind my ticket booth. To run away means life, to linger means certain death."

I haven't got round to ordering the Swedish version of LTODD yet (only have LDRKI so far!) so I don't know whether that is a paraphrase or whether the original is the same as in LDRKI (Att fly är livet, men att dröja döden).
Yes, the Swedish original has the same quote from Romeo and Juliet (Att fly är livet, att dröja döden).
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

Swaefheard
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Swaefheard » Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:06 pm

Thanks! I must order the Swedish LTODD soon.

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Wolfchild
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Wolfchild » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:50 pm

Following the logic laid out LDKRI, there is no reason to suspect that becoming infected would cure Stefan's cancer. In fact, it would seem likely that the infection would just keep him alive despite the cancer. After all, Eli was not restored to an undamaged state by becoming infected. Instead, it kept him at the state that the was in when he became infected. I suppose it is a bit contradictory that a scar was grown over what must have been an open wound from his castration, but Eli's genitals were not regenerated in any fashion.

How would Stefan feel about living forever with his cancer, and at the cost of an unlimited number of murders? How would Karin feel about that?
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

Visit My LTROI fan page.

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Zeb
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Zeb » Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:09 pm

Well,i did it-i read 'Let the old dreams die' story last night...i couldnt resist flicking forward.

What did i think? Not what i was expecting to be honest.I expected perhaps a little more information of what life has been like for Oskar and Elli,but instead it concentrated on Karin and Stefan told from a third persons perspective.Im not knocking it-just saying it wasnt what i was expecting.

My take on the end though some might disagree. I took it as Karin was given the photo and they both went to Barcelona for closure on the Blackeberg murder case before Stefan died. I didnt read into it at all that they intended to be infected and the chances of them finding them would be tiny. If someone dont want to be found-its very hard to find them.

Nice story and exceptionally well written.
Do or not do-there is no try.
Master Yoda

Swaefheard
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Swaefheard » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:39 pm

Wolfchild wrote:Following the logic laid out LDKRI, there is no reason to suspect that becoming infected would cure Stefan's cancer. In fact, it would seem likely that the infection would just keep him alive despite the cancer. After all, Eli was not restored to an undamaged state by becoming infected. Instead, it kept him at the state that the was in when he became infected. I suppose it is a bit contradictory that a scar was grown over what must have been an open wound from his castration, but Eli's genitals were not regenerated in any fashion.

How would Stefan feel about living forever with his cancer, and at the cost of an unlimited number of murders? How would Karin feel about that?
I don't think it is made clear in LTROI/LDRKI that Eli was infected immediately after castration. Perhaps he was mutilated and the wound left to heal before he was infected? We only really have the second (?) memory transfer which is rather inconclusive about the passage of time and sequence of events.
Sees the bowl the man is holding in his hands, the bowl he brings to his mouth and how he drinks. How the man shuts his eyes, finally shuts them and drinks … More time … Endless time. Imprisoned. The man bites. And drinks. Bites. And drinks.
...which is probably when Eli became infected.

On the other hand, we know that Eli's back was "one big open wound" when he fell from the bath and killed Lacke. The infection could heal that so it's possible that the castration wound could also have been healed by it. The infection had no use for the missing genitals so it may not have wasted effort regenerating them.

In Stefan's case I'd also assumed that the cancer would just be put in remission if he became infected. Whether he and Karin would be prepared to go down that road is debatable. They seemed wrapped up in each other but it's a big leap from that to living at the cost of the lives of innumerable others .

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metoo
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by metoo » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:03 pm

Swaefheard wrote:
Wolfchild wrote:[...]How would Stefan feel about living forever with his cancer, and at the cost of an unlimited number of murders? How would Karin feel about that?
I don't think it is made clear in LTROI/LDRKI that Eli was infected immediately after castration. Perhaps he was mutilated and the wound left to heal before he was infected? We only really have the second (?) memory transfer which is rather inconclusive about the passage of time and sequence of events.
Sees the bowl the man is holding in his hands, the bowl he brings to his mouth and how he drinks. How the man shuts his eyes, finally shuts them and drinks … More time … Endless time. Imprisoned. The man bites. And drinks. Bites. And drinks.
...which is probably when Eli became infected.[...]

I also read this passage this way, i.e. that there was considerable time between the mutilation and the turning. If so, the wound would have healed.
Swaefheard wrote:In Stefan's case I'd also assumed that the cancer would just be put in remission if he became infected. Whether he and Karin would be prepared to go down that road is debatable. They seemed wrapped up in each other but it's a big leap from that to living at the cost of the lives of innumerable others .
Yes, this is true. If it hadn't been for that last message to the narrator - let the old dreams die, we are dreaming new ones - I wouldn't had thought they would walk that path. But the message was sent. How else to interpret it, if not that they were looking for a future together? And what future, if not one as vampires?
Last edited by metoo on Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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drakkar
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by drakkar » Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:49 pm

In the novel, Eli's crotch had smooth skin, no scar as he had in the film. What do we make out of that? Did Eli's castration scars heal right away, or did they disappear later, when he was turned? In the last case, Stefan's cancer might also disappear, if he is turned..
Oh, these details! :mrgreen:
Last edited by drakkar on Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

Swaefheard
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Re: Discussion (spoilers)

Post by Swaefheard » Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:07 pm

But it's speculating about these details that makes the books and films so interesting! I can't remember anything else having this effect on me. :lol:

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