Virtual Book Club

For discussion of John Ajvide Lindqvist's novel Låt den rätte komma in
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a_contemplative_life
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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by a_contemplative_life » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:40 am

gattoparde59 wrote:Some random thoughts on the prologue and the first chapter.

Still not entirely clear what the prologue is all about, the way Blackeberg is described. A place that disappoints? A new frontier that seems to become more like a jail. Maybe. A place lacking in imagination? Too materialistic? Lacking a spiritual life and so "unprepared" for something like Eli? Maybe this is one of the many translation issues that crop up in this novel?

Nice bit about the moving van driver. He was party to some unspecified horror, something that he is going to keep a secret. Secrecy and concealment seems to be one theme in the first chapter. Think of all the things that Oskar keeps hidden: his piss ball, himself from the bullies, the stolen candy, his apartment building (described as a fortress), his scrapbook, hiding the knife in his pants, the game he plays in the woods. Håkan has some pretty obvious stuff he is trying to hide as well. :lol: Most of all I think Eli is hidden away in this first chapter. My impression is that you could read this first chapter and not really know that there is an Eli in the story. Is there a direct reference to Eli in this first chapter? Håkan's motivations are definitely a puzzle if you have never read this before.

Oskar in the first chapter? I don't know if this is a matter of liking or not liking, but Oskar does seem to be a very depressing character. Oskar's life seems unrelentingly sad and dark. He is ruled by fear and self-loathing. He tries to compensate with the shoplifting and later with the "game" he plays with the knife. Also interesting that he tries to rationalize his predicament, squealing like a pig is his "superpower" that he uses to survive.

What is really striking about Oskar is just how isolated he is in the first chapter. Any wonder he fantasizes about making friends with the police officer. He is terrorized and then left alone in the bathroom. He chats with Tommy for a bit, but Tommy treats this mainly as a sales opportunity, although there is a little rough kindness there I think. Johan is out there somewhere, but is definitely not much of friend.

So the overwhelming image I get of Oskar is how very alone he is, sealed away in his apartment, eating his candy, turning abruptly to his sickening fantasies about murder, fantasies he shares with no one, in part because there is no one there to share them with.

Or is he alone? I am still struck by how Oskar first senses a presence in his room, a poison gas that threatens to "devour" him. (the original Swedish would be helpful here, this is a weird image) then Oskar begins with the "the earth will drink his blood" as he imagines the murder of Jonny. The clincher for me here is at the end of it all he finds he cut his wrist by accident, licks up his own blood and then imagines it is Jonny's blood. I really think that Eli's influence is already making itself felt through the apartment wall and into Oskar's head. Eli has those kinds of psychic powers.

I could go on about this type of communion that I find running through the story, but I'll leave it there- for now.
Yes, some have speculated that maybe Oskar somehow sense's Eli's presence next door.

I think JAL manages to build up substantial tension and interest by introducing the as-yet unnamed Eli through Hakan's thoughts. The thing I am not quite so sure about is how justified Hakan's fear of Eli really is. Take the part, for example, where he says to himself, "If he didn't do it, he would have to kill himself. Couldn't go home empty-handed. That's how it was. It was him or the boy. Go ahead and choose." I don't get the impression from the rest of the story that Eli really is as dark and terrifying as this passage suggests. Because later on, the two of them just end up arguing and bargaining about it--Eli never really threatens him.
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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by a_contemplative_life » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:43 am

I've god one other random thought from Chapter 1. When Oskar meets Tommy in the courtyard and Tommy inquires about some blood from his nose, Oskar thinks,
Don't tell. There was no point. Tommy was three years older, a tough guy. He would only say something about fighting back and Oskar would say "sure" and the end result would be that he lost even more respect in Tommy's eyes.
What is it about Oskar's relationship with Eli that allows him to accept the exact same advice that he doesn't want to hear from Tommy?
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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by cmfireflies » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:16 am

What is it about Oskar's relationship with Eli that allows him to accept the exact same advice that he doesn't want to hear from Tommy?
Because Eli is the same age and doesn't look like a "tough guy." Eli seems like his equal and if Eli advises him to hit back, Oskar knows it's not because Eli's just looking down on 12 year olds.
"When is a monster not a monster? Oh, when you love it."

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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by metoo » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:10 am

a_contemplative_life wrote: [...]The thing I am not quite so sure about is how justified Hakan's fear of Eli really is. Take the part, for example, where he says to himself, "If he didn't do it, he would have to kill himself. Couldn't go home empty-handed. That's how it was. It was him or the boy. Go ahead and choose." I don't get the impression from the rest of the story that Eli really is as dark and terrifying as this passage suggests. Because later on, the two of them just end up arguing and bargaining about it--Eli never really threatens him.
I don't (necessarily) read this passage as Håkan being frightened of Eli, but rather that he is afraid of losing Eli and thus his regained purpose of existence. In other words, if he couldn't bring Eli blood he could just as well end his own life, since he would be useless.

It's, of course, also a way of rationalising what he is about to do, of talking himself into the needed state of mind. It's me or the boy.
But from the beginning Eli was just Eli. Nothing. Anything. And he is still a mystery to me. John Ajvide Lindqvist

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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by gattoparde59 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:06 am

a_contemplative_life wrote:I agree with Wolf that pity is my predominant emotional reaction to Oskar at the start of the novel. I don't really care for the thieving, but so many do it in the story (Oskar, Tommy, and Lacke), that one almost gets the impression that it's a universal phenomenon, and therefore no big deal. And later, one of the Chinese restaurant gang throws a dig at the guy who owns the Vallingby toy shop that he's the one ripping off the customers by overcharging for cheap merchandise. Clearly, JAL doesn't frown upon shoplifting very much.
Have you read "Majken" in Let the Old Dreams Die? :)

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by Daniel Ether » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:22 pm

a_contemplative_life wrote:By the way--it seems to me that any self-respecting club ought to have a designated meeting place. I therefore offer a choice between the Chinese restaurant...

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... or the basement of Tommy's apartment. :D

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hmmm... :think: i think my vote goes for the basement.
gattoparde59 wrote:...The basement sounds very homey with a couch and an 8-track. I am always up for a little dumpster diving too. Choice of intoxicants seems to be limited to glue, so the Chinese place has the advantage there.

Hm. :think:
Couch and 8-track really sounds got for some comfortable discussions :D
metoo wrote:
a_contemplative_life wrote: [...]The thing I am not quite so sure about is how justified Hakan's fear of Eli really is. Take the part, for example, where he says to himself, "If he didn't do it, he would have to kill himself. Couldn't go home empty-handed. That's how it was. It was him or the boy. Go ahead and choose." I don't get the impression from the rest of the story that Eli really is as dark and terrifying as this passage suggests. Because later on, the two of them just end up arguing and bargaining about it--Eli never really threatens him.
I don't (necessarily) read this passage as Håkan being frightened of Eli, but rather that he is afraid of losing Eli and thus his regained purpose of existence. In other words, if he couldn't bring Eli blood he could just as well end his own life, since he would be useless.

It's, of course, also a way of rationalising what he is about to do, of talking himself into the needed state of mind. It's me or the boy.
I also think its not a direct fear that Eli could to something to him, maybe its more an indirect fear that Eli could be lost for him... and maybe this weights even more... thats something i wondering about right now thinking of it, if Eli in the movie should be more feared in that point.
And what would happened in the book if Hakan refused to collect more blood for Eli. Would he be just left by Eli? Or would it bring him in direct danger while haveing this discussion? :think: I can't rate Eli in this case at that point.
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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by Wolfchild » Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:45 am

gattoparde59 wrote:Still not entirely clear what the prologue is all about, the way Blackeberg is described. A place that disappoints? A new frontier that seems to become more like a jail. Maybe. A place lacking in imagination? Too materialistic? Lacking a spiritual life and so "unprepared" for something like Eli? Maybe this is one of the many translation issues that crop up in this novel?
I think that the entire point of the prologue is to present this passage:
Only one thing was missing. A past. At school, the children didn't get to do any special projects about Blackeberg's history because there wasn't one. That is to say, there was something about an old mill. A tobacco king. Some strange old buildings down by the water. But that was a long time ago and without any connection to the present.

Where the three-storied apartment buildings now stood there had been only forest before.

You were beyond the grasp of the mysteries of the past; there wasn't even a church. Nine thousand inhabitants and no church.

That tells you something about the modernity of the place, its rationality. It tells you something of how free they were from the ghosts of history and of terror.

It explains in part how unprepared they were.
I have opined elsewhere that the novel seems to be in part an indictment of Blackeberg. In general, the book seems skeptical, to put it mildly, of the idea of central planning and social engineering. The prologue tells us that Blackeberg's modernity and rationality make it free "from the ghosts of history and of terror". Then it launches into the first chapter and we meet Oskar. He does not seem free from terror, nor indeed is he free from the impulsive cruelty that has been part of the human condition since time immemorial. The "the measured cubbies and shelves" of Blackeberg do nothing to address the same old human failings.

Most horror stories resonate with us because the horrific element is in some way an avatar for a dark part of the human experience. The creators of Blackeberg ignored the dark side of humanity and thus the inhabitants were unprepared to meet its avatar, Eli. So too, in the first chapter, we see that Blackeberg is unprepared to protect Oskar from the dark side humanity. However perfect were "the measured cubbies and shelves," darkness still comes and goes in Blackeberg unchecked.

I won't claim that any of this was subtext consciously intended by JAL (or that it wasn't). He always says he just writes and doesn't try to put in meta-messages and the like. However, the somewhat mocking tone that the prologue takes towards Blackeberg caused me to wonder along this line of thought. Although we don't know it yet at this point in the novel, I think the prologue is giving us the hint that this story is about how Oskar deals with "the ghosts of history and of terror" that are in Blackeberg. How one part is killing him, and how another saves him.
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by Crow-453 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:22 am

I'm planning on a full re-read-through very soon, so I'm hoping that I will be able to put up my own views on certain parts. However, there's one thing I want to put up now.

I don't know if it's been brought up before, but I've found an anachronism. It's mentioned in the prose that Oskar has some of the Goosebumps books, but R.L. Stine didn't get Goosebumps published until July 1992. Like I said, I don't know if it's been spotted before, but I just wanted to put it up in case it hadn't.

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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by PeteMork » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:36 am

Crow-453 wrote:I'm planning on a full re-read-through very soon, so I'm hoping that I will be able to put up my own views on certain parts. However, there's one thing I want to put up now.

I don't know if it's been brought up before, but I've found an anachronism. It's mentioned in the prose that Oskar has some of the Goosebumps books, but R.L. Stine didn't get Goosebumps published until July 1992. Like I said, I don't know if it's been spotted before, but I just wanted to put it up in case it hadn't.
After the bad substitution of "Luffarschack" in the Swedish version to "Tic-tac-toe" in the English version (thanks again, metoo), I wonder if "Goosbumps" is a similar bad substitution. Any of our Swedish infected want to comment on this? Metoo?

A question about Chapter 1: We all assume that Oskar was fat, or at least a bit overweight. But the only passage I've found so far that indicate it, is this one:
They could give a number of reasons for why they had to torment him; he was too fat, too ugly, too disgusting. But the real problem was simply that he existed, and every reminder of his existence was a crime.
And since we have no reason to think he was ugly or disgusting, how do we know this isn't just the way Oskar sees himself?

I have probably just overlooked them, but can anyone point to any other references to his weight? (Other than the fact that that his tormenters all call him 'piggy') Or his ugliness? :think:
Last edited by PeteMork on Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Virtual Book Club Idea

Post by gattoparde59 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:38 am

Crow-453 wrote:I'm planning on a full re-read-through very soon, so I'm hoping that I will be able to put up my own views on certain parts. However, there's one thing I want to put up now.

I don't know if it's been brought up before, but I've found an anachronism. It's mentioned in the prose that Oskar has some of the Goosebumps books, but R.L. Stine didn't get Goosebumps published until July 1992. Like I said, I don't know if it's been spotted before, but I just wanted to put it up in case it hadn't.
I remember that being a translation problem. This was a different series of horror books published in Sweden the name of which I can't remember. Somehow they became Goosebumps in translation.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

Nisa

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