Vampire supernatural

[metoo]

I thought blood is what fueled their body. They don't excrete any toxins as much as they do just vomit anything up that their body doesn't want. After they use up the blood for whatever reason their body needs, (Which they seem to burn in the form of energy. Transformations, healing, et) They then search for more. I guess that's how I originally thought about it. I only remember Oskar being uncertain as to whether Eli even goes to the restroom. Unless that is also some sort of mistranslation.

Excretion isn't primarily about toxins, but about waste. Metabolism isn't 100% efficient; some of the material will end up as waste, and needs to be excreted.

Now, assuming a vampire has a somewhat normal metabolism, the ingested blood would be partly used to replenish worn-out parts of the body, and partly used to provide energy. The latter process oxidises carbohydrates, which returns water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 escapes through breathing, while the water needs to be excreted. Furthermore, blood contains other elements than carbon and hydrogen. These need to be excreted as well.

I personally prefer a prosaic and natural solution to this problem before one that magically makes stuff disappear. One reason is that the natural explanation is more in accord with the novel, which describes the infection in biological terms. Another is that it creates a prosaic contrast to all the strangeness, which I as a writer of fan fiction like to have available.

[sauvin]

The novel mentions Eli wanting to vomit once in the novel that I can remember. It was in the house of an old woman. After she'd bitten down and started drinking, she could taste that the woman's blood was full of medications and realised (or could actually taste) that the woman had cancer. I can't remember whether she actually did vomit or not, but do remember her trying not to. After having consumed that blood, Eli went a little loopy for a while, presumably from the drugs in the woman's blood.

It was bad blood. The novel also has a passage somewhere with Haakan thinking about Eli's requirements. The blood can only be so old, implying that it either goes bad pretty quickly, or it loses its fizz. I believe Eli also prefers blood from younger folk, implying that not all blood is created equal.

Characters in Stephen King novels sometimes wet themselves in fear, and even occasionally soil themselves, a fact for which King apparently has drawn quite a bit of fire over the years. He retorts that this happens in Real Life (tm), too, and people just don't want to admit it. We can have whole populations of blood-sucking monsters sucking Salem's Lot dry, and folks might complain that these vampires aren't exactly Dracula without worrying too much about people eating each other, but let somebody loose a hot, steaming load into his pants and King, apparently, has crossed over from the merely horrible to the unspeakably obscene.

My personal view is that Eli is a natural physical being and subject to natural physical law. When she's at rest, the law of gravity requires that she adhere to whatever horizontal surface she might resting on. She can't pass through plate glass window without first displacing it, just like anybody else. We need to sleep, and so does she; when we don't eat, we get weak and can become ill, and the same is true of her. She's just like anybody else, really, except that she has "an unusual illness". If she never eliminated waste material, under natural law after a couple of centuries, she'd be the size of a swimming pool.

Blood has mass and volume, and consuming it adds mass and volume her body. I suppose it's possible that a (super)natural being might eject waste material by vomiting after having extracted whatever it is that's needed from what it's consumed, but I'm not aware of any other creature that does this. In Eli's case, why should such a mechanism be required? When she was infected and transformed, she'd already had a perfectly good system for extracting what sustains her and eliminating unused mass. Why have to construct or evolve something new when there's nothing wrong with the old?

The resistance to this idea still sometimes frankly amazes me. One person went so far as to fabricate some kind of baroque scheme that involves supernaturally transmuting used blood into something that slips away into some other dimension or plane of existence. People complain that having to go to the bathroom would somehow diminish her ethereal image..

I sometimes go in quite the opposite direction., musing that she sleeps in the bathroom for a reason, and that she often wears a particular kind of clothing for the same reason. When she jumped on Jocke, she probably sucked down about a gallon of a thick fluid within a small handful of minutes - how many of us can do that? - and I imagine she didn't get very far before she had to make a Necessary Stop (tm). Maybe the urge hits very suddenly, and leaves her with almost no time to prepare for it. Wearing dresses and psycho pants (no time-consuming zippers or belt buckles to fuss with) makes it easy to move clothing out of the way in a single, fast motion, and sleeping in a bathtub means cleaning up a mess just by turning a knob and letting the mess swirl down the drain in case she has an "uh oh" while she's sleeping.

Point is, Eli isn't "ethereal". She's a dirty, homeless little waif who maintains her existence by killing random strangers. A monster, cut off, cast out and lower than the lowest. This actually is part of the story's magic, that as awful as she is, as transgressive and repugnant, she still somehow stumbled into a relationship where she's treated and regarded substantially as a regular person. Leaving little pools of hot black sticky tar behind the bushes doesn't change that.

[PeteMork]

I thought blood is what fueled their body. They don't excrete any toxins as much as they do just vomit anything up that their body doesn't want. After they use up the blood for whatever reason their body needs, (Which they seem to burn in the form of energy. Transformations, healing, et) They then search for more. I guess that's how I originally thought about it. I only remember Oskar being uncertain as to whether Eli even goes to the restroom. Unless that is also some sort of mistranslation.

Excretion isn't primarily about toxins, but about waste. Metabolism isn't 100% efficient; some of the material will end up as waste, and needs to be excreted.

Now, assuming a vampire has a somewhat normal metabolism, the ingested blood would be partly used to replenish worn-out parts of the body, and partly used to provide energy. The latter process oxidises carbohydrates, which returns water and carbon dioxide. The CO2 escapes through breathing, while the water needs to be excreted. Furthermore, blood contains other elements than carbon and hydrogen. These need to be excreted as well.

I personally prefer a prosaic and natural solution to this problem before one that magically makes stuff disappear. One reason is that the natural explanation is more in accord with the novel, which describes the infection in biological terms. Another is that it creates a prosaic contrast to all the strangeness, which I as a writer of fan fiction like to have available.

Actually when we get down to the interactions on the molecular level and the resulting energy produced, it becomes difficult to find a 'natural' explanation for the amount of energy a vampire has at its disposal (growing and retracting wings, fangs, and claws; having superhuman strength and rapid over-the-top healing abilities, etc.), vs the amount of energy available in blood, no matter how it's processed. So, unless we want to revert to the 'magic' of the supernatural, there would have to be some sort of nuclear (perhaps cold fusion?) reaction. That's the only other potential source of energy that could conceivably be extracted from the remaining components of blood.

Also, I think the description of Eli's privates in the book, at least from Oskar's point of view, preclude him from being able to urinate at the least, which is why many here have inferred that perhaps he didn't produce waste at all.

[sauvin]

I think the description of Eli's privates in the book, at least from Oskar's point of view, preclude him from being able to urinate at the least, which is why many here have inferred that perhaps he didn't produce waste at all.

And "Oskar's point of view", which most emphatically was through a thorough clinical examination, wouldn't necessarily allow him to see what would amount to a very inconspicuous urinary "meatus". Maybe she can't grow new arms or legs or things lost in the subway, but her ability to heal would imply to me that this opening would be preserved. Men might not like to think about it, but all that anatomical superstructure isn't needed for excretion, a fact to which countless men who'd suffered radical superstructure removal over the millennia could testify.

[Drakeule]

I just love how the discussion moved to "do vampires crap?" I think of them as I do of girls... I pretend they don't do that.

[metoo]

I think Eli's urethra still opened on the surface of his body. The main reson is that I think Eli lived for a while between the mutilation and the turning. During that time, Eli must have been able to urinate, which requires the opening.

My personal view is that Eli is a natural physical being and subject to natural physical law. When she's at rest, the law of gravity requires that she adhere to whatever horizontal surface she might resting on. She can't pass through plate glass window without first displacing it, just like anybody else. We need to sleep, and so does she; when we don't eat, we get weak and can become ill, and the same is true of her. She's just like anybody else, really, except that she has "an unusual illness". If she never eliminated waste material, under natural law after a couple of centuries, she'd be the size of a swimming pool.

This is my view, too.

Blood has mass and volume, and consuming it adds mass and volume her body. I suppose it's possible that a (super)natural being might eject waste material by vomiting after having extracted whatever it is that's needed from what it's consumed, but I'm not aware of any other creature that does this. In Eli's case, why should such a mechanism be required? When she was infected and transformed, she'd already had a perfectly good system for extracting what sustains her and eliminating unused mass. Why have to construct or evolve something new when there's nothing wrong with the old?

The resistance to this idea still sometimes frankly amazes me. One person went so far as to fabricate some kind of baroque scheme that involves supernaturally transmuting used blood into something that slips away into some other dimension or plane of existence. People complain that having to go to the bathroom would somehow diminish her ethereal image..

I agree.

... it becomes difficult to find a 'natural' explanation for the amount of energy a vampire has at its disposal ...

I agree to this - I just didn't want to introduce an additional subject into my previous posting.

Also, I think the description of Eli's privates in the book, at least from Oskar's point of view, preclude him from being able to urinate at the least, which is why many here have inferred that perhaps he didn't produce waste at all.

The description does allow an opening, I think:
Eli tog av sig morgonrocken och Oskar fick ännu en skymt av hans mellangärde. Nu såg han att det mot den bleka huden avtecknade sig en svagt rosa fläck, ett ärr.
Eli took off the bathrobe and Oskar got yet a glimpse of his crotch. Now he saw that against the pale skin stood out a faint pink spot, a scar. My translation.

[Cthulhuthanos]

A quick note before I move on with what I am going to say. Firstly, I am aware that waste is not primarily composed of toxins. Second, I agree that adding in an ethereal aspect is kind of silly, despite the supernatural aspects of the story. I was merely entertaining the idea that Eli, and other such vampires, may not digest and excrete waste as we do, if at all. It is possible that the urethra on Eli does have an opening somewhere, meaning it's urinary system is probably still intact, I was thinking more in regards to A Contemplative Life's story where the majority Vampires digestive system is rendered obsolete and is destroyed by the infection (via means of excretion). However, my temporary inability to consider foresight didn't allow me to fully process the idea that a digestive system would be required for the vampires main food source, meaning, it completely slipped my mind lol. That being said, since we are on the topic of biology, let us discuss the condition of Hakan. After having his heart crushed by Eli, shouldn't he have died? He also was able to enter rooms without the need to ask permission (not that he could). What's interesting is that after he was smashed to pieces, I believe there was some thing said about his separated limbs and organs still crawling around. Is it possible that the disease, which is starting to seem more like a parasite, started growing similar 'brains' in other organs in an attempt to survive? Maybe it's a sort of Entomopathogenic fungus that works on humans and other such creatures. Or maybe it's best just to leave it as the supernatural phenomena that it is.

[Drakeule]

Håkan wasn't a vampire. His brain died and the infection was the only thing that was controlling him. (Why he still wants to rape Eli, I don't know) But he is an undead and the vampire rules don't apply to him.

[Cthulhuthanos]

Hmmm, I remember Eli saying that Hakan was an undead, however, I thought she was referring to a type of vampire. Also, it seems that both of Hakan's brains were dead. Eli crushed his heart, which is part of the mind of the infection, and I'm assuming that after his head was smashed in and his body was smashed into pieces that he no longer had his original brain either. Maybe JAL was going more for the traditional zombie, nearly impossible to kill by any means. If it is just an infection, how does one decide when certain vampire rules no longer apply? That's why I find it rather silly that people find it hard to believe that vampires in the story don't produce waste in ways similar to our own. In the end, it is a super natural creature. Maybe the blood Eli soaks in is his own that he excretes through his skin. What if that's how he get's rid of waste without the need for the human digestive system. It's hard to try and explain something supernatural, so I'll only use the evidence and implications given in the book itself.

[PeteMork]

Point is, Eli isn't "ethereal". She's a dirty, homeless little waif who maintains her existence by killing random strangers. A monster, cut off, cast out and lower than the lowest. This actually is part of the story's magic, that as awful as she is, as transgressive and repugnant, she still somehow stumbled into a relationship where she's treated and regarded substantially as a regular person. Leaving little pools of hot black sticky tar behind the bushes doesn't change that.

Absolutely correct. Any attempts to explain how Eli could get away without any bathroom breaks is purely analytical on my part. I have no prejudices either way, all things being equal (i.e., the science of it all remaining as close to reality as possible.)

I think the description of Eli's privates in the book, at least from Oskar's point of view, preclude him from being able to urinate at the least, which is why many here have inferred that perhaps he didn't produce waste at all.

And "Oskar's point of view", which most emphatically was through a thorough clinical examination, wouldn't necessarily allow him to see what would amount to a very inconspicuous urinary "meatus". Maybe she can't grow new arms or legs or things lost in the subway, but her ability to heal would imply to me that this opening would be preserved. Men might not like to think about it, but all that anatomical superstructure isn't needed for excretion, a fact to which countless men who'd suffered radical superstructure removal over the millennia could testify.

Also credible. But to move the discussion into the realm of utter geekiness, I submit the following:

http://www.livescience.com/49157-how-fa ... -body.html

The article is called, "Exhaled Pounds: How Fat Leaves the Body"

An intriguing segment:

[ ]The researchers showed that during weight loss, 84 percent of the fat that is lost turns into carbon dioxide and leaves the body through the lungs, whereas the remaining 16 percent becomes water, according to the study published today (Dec. 16) in a special Christmas issue of the medical journal BMJ.

"These results show that the lungs are the primary excretory organ for weight loss. The water formed may be excreted in the urine, feces, sweat, breath, tears or other bodily fluids, and is readily replenished," the researchers said.[/ ]

In other words, originally solid waste could conceivably be eliminated in the form of gaseous compounds rather than 'black sticky tar." Definitely 'food' for thought.