Eli Casting

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drakkar
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Re: Eli Casting

Post by drakkar » Tue Oct 19, 2010 12:39 pm

withinfocus wrote:You're being incredibly short-sighted by saying this. You as a reader don't know any of these things and it's only your personal follow-up outside of the book that's painted that picture. The local atmosphere in "Let Me In" is arguably the same as "Let The Right One In" with its short days, snow, cold, and general worker-class population as well as most of the plot. Read the story as it is.
Thanks. Now you seem to use reader ignorance as an argument for your point of view. LMI is LTROI for dummies? I'm passing on JAL's own words, you'll find them in the Northlander interview:
The Northlander: So can you tell them a bit about how the book got started and what background it has?

JAL: Yeah. I finished this book seven years ago, and it got rejected by a helluva lot of publishers in Sweden, but it was published by Ordfront and it... You mean the background to the story, or to the book? The story? Well, it was my first novel, that became this completely unlikely and unexpected success here in Sweden and I just originally started from wanting to depict the place where I grew up – Blackeberg, a suburb to Stockholm, like I did back when I was a stand up comedian, I used to talk a lot about Blackeberg, or like a ficticious Blackeberg with rival gangs of senior citizens and well, what it was like there. And then I sort of returned there when I was going to write my first novel, to create a Blackeberg where I depicted it in such a way that it was going to be possible for a vampire to be living there. That a world where a vampire, a 12-year-old vampire, would be able to exist and I wanted to approach my subject completely seriously and absolutely reject all.. sort of ”romanticized” notions about vampires, or what we’ve seen earlier of vampires, and just concentrate on the question: If a child was stuck forever like, in a 12-year-old existence and had to walk around killing other people and drink their blood to live – what would that child’s existance really be like? If you disregard all the romanticized clichés. And then it struck me when I wrote the book that it would be an absolutely horrible existence. Miserable, gross and lonely. And hence, the way Eli is depicted.

...

The Northlander: I heard a rumor a couple of years ago, somewhere, that if you look at the year book from Blackeberg in the early 80s, you’ll find a lot of these characters, with the same names even.

JAL: Yeah that’s true. The last names are changed only.

The Northlander: The book is very rich in detail, compared to the movie which is very, very economical. In a good way.

JAL: Right.

The Northlander: Are a lot of these locations still there today?

JAL: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. They are. Some, like this Chinese restaurant that these winos hang out, that’s not a Chinese restaurant anymore, it’s called Wok & Grill, but it’s still the same winos hanging there. They look exactly the same, it’s the same people. I was there a couple of years ago, you could see then – there’s Morgan, there’s Lacke, there’s (laughs).... Actually. And, other than that... Nah Blackeberg isn’t all that changed, they’ve built a few apartments here and there, but the centre looks the same, where I grew up, where Oskar lives, it still looks the same, The school... yeah no it’s pretty much the same.
And JAL's last comment on LMI here on the board:
johnajvide wrote:.. But there is room for LMI, too. A smaller chamber in a different location. But definitely there.
Of course LMI and LTROI are both takes of the story between Eli and Oskar, but to pour the top notch portrayal of JAL's old neighbourhood down the drain just because some readers haven't heard about the place seems disrespectful to me. Rant over.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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withinfocus
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Re: Eli Casting

Post by withinfocus » Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:19 pm

See, you have it backwards because you think that the knowledge you have somehow makes your opinion that the first film was "right" in its setting and the second "wrong" correct. Your quoting of an interview proves my point exactly since it's likely that a statistically insignificant amount of the book's readers saw that interview, and it's even less significant assuming that almost no one who saw the American movie read the book or knows beyond the basics what it's about or more importantly cares about the author. It's offensive to viewers of the American film that you label them "ignorant" just because you know the author's backstory which is something that has no actual effect on a scene-by-scene understanding of the film from the audience's point of view. A story is what it is and if the author needed something in there then he / she should have included it which in this case he satisfactorily did. It's nice to know about him but it absolutely should not affect your interpretation of the story in the context of this or many other book- or movie-specific analysis threads. It's like saying "The Exorcist" has to be set in Georgetown and not London; it's not hurting the story to have it in a different setting that provides the same atmosphere. You've got a very dangerous bias going if you're going to analyze a story as it is yet bring in a bunch of external information.

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by sauvin » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:27 pm

withinfocus wrote:See, you have it backwards because you think that the knowledge you have somehow makes your opinion that the first film was "right" in its setting and the second "wrong" correct. Your quoting of an interview proves my point exactly since it's likely that a statistically insignificant amount of the book's readers saw that interview, and it's even less significant assuming that almost no one who saw the American movie read the book or knows beyond the basics what it's about or more importantly cares about the author. It's offensive to viewers of the American film that you label them "ignorant" just because you know the author's backstory which is something that has no actual effect on a scene-by-scene understanding of the film from the audience's point of view. A story is what it is and if the author needed something in there then he / she should have included it which in this case he satisfactorily did. It's nice to know about him but it absolutely should not affect your interpretation of the story in the context of this or many other book- or movie-specific analysis threads. It's like saying "The Exorcist" has to be set in Georgetown and not London; it's not hurting the story to have it in a different setting that provides the same atmosphere. You've got a very dangerous bias going if you're going to analyze a story as it is yet bring in a bunch of external information.
I don't agree that people who've read the book, read others written by this same author, read, listened to or watched the interviews and seen the original movie have any kind of authority or superiority to those who haven't when it comes to appreciating LMI in its own right. In particular, I don't find that American audiences are necessarily "ignorant" for not having sought out these other resources; Reeves either succeeded in telling the tale entirely within the movie itself, or he didn't.

At the same time, many of us have sought out and consumed these resources, mostly in an effort to understand the original story better. We even refer to the novel as "canon" when trying to assess the probability of various assertions concerning Eli's nature, Oskar's, their relationship and anything that might have impacted them or it, however tangentially or at whatever order of remove.

There won't likely be a great deal more new discussion about LMI or its adherents until the DVD comes out - but when that happens, we may see more discussion of this nature, and some of it is prone to be a bit heated as people find themselves feeling challenged by differing points of view. My suggestion is that these differing views be examined and, if necessary, counterchallenged politely. Today's enemy may wind up being tomorrow's uneasy ally.

Those of us, the Infected, who view the novel, the LTROI movie and the various interviews as a body of "canon" have generally found that these enhanced our enjoyment (if not understanding) greatly. I, for one, do not find that it bolsters my personal authority in quoting any such source when disagreeing with something found in LMI; quite the opposite, I look for these differences for the purpose of differential analysis: maybe something in LMI will foster greater understanding in LTROI by seeming to contradict it in some particular.

With two notable exceptions, my disagreements with other board members have sought to be unaggressive and polite, if not actually respectful. Some of the language we're seeing in this dialog is drifting away from "respectful" and poaching on bristling tribalism. I would counsel retreat.
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Re: Eli Casting

Post by jetboy » Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:33 pm

Barb wrote:One of the things that makes Lina so interesting as Eli is that she's half Swedish, half Iraqi, which gives her a different look from, say, Oskar, who very much looks like what we think of when we think of people from Scandinavian countries. Eli seems almost out of place, although you can't really explain why, except that her hair is darker than some (not all) kids in the film. Lina also has this amazing ability to look 12 and at least 200 years old at the same time (is it make up or just good acting?). We can readily believe she's a lonely hild vampire. Plus, Lina's voice is either dubbed or altered to sound lower than the cute voice she has in real life, which causes the viewer to feel a little unsettled on a subconcious level. I'm not sure that could be done in an American film, as if might just come off as campy, so any actor who played Eli would have to either have a deeper voice than most 12 year old girls (a boy might do, for instance) or be a heck of a good actor to make us believe she's a child vampire.

When I see Chloe, I see a lovely young girl who is full of charm and will continue to grow as an actor. She has talent. I just have a very hard time seeing someone who would be a perfect Alice in Wonderland, a child that is so fun and smart and perky in real life as a lonely vampire child. Even when she was attacking people, even in her make up, I just thought, "So cute!" The original director filmed from a distance so we wouldn't have that problem with Lina. To me, that was a smart move. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief concerning Chloe.

Personally, I think that if you can see Abby as a totally different person than Eli that just happens to have a very similar story, you might be able to suspend your disbelief in a way I couldn't. Because, even though I don't like the remake, a lot of smart, perceptive people do and so I'm trying to take the attitude of "to each, their own".
I agree with alot of what you say here. Eli was set up to look out of place and not just her heritage or voice. Look at how disheveled her clothes are and how thwy dont match her and how the colors of her clothes dont match up to her or each other (except Oskars moms dress which I think fits her colors and style). Compare that to the clothes of the kids of the town. Oskar wears only variations of brown and blue, no matter what. Of the two secondary bullies, one wears only variations of brown (tan etc.) and the other one wears only blue. Connie wears mostly black and red which to me is saying that he is the truly evil one in the movie. What effect does it have? Look at the scene with Oskar stabbing the tree, look at how his clothes blend in with the buildings around him. Eli doesnt blend in any where not even with herself

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by drakkar » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:57 am

sauvin wrote:I don't agree that people who've read the book, read others written by this same author, read, listened to or watched the interviews and seen the original movie have any kind of authority or superiority to those who haven't when it comes to appreciating LMI in its own right. In particular, I don't find that American audiences are necessarily "ignorant" for not having sought out these other resources; Reeves either succeeded in telling the tale entirely within the movie itself, or he didn't.

At the same time, many of us have sought out and consumed these resources, mostly in an effort to understand the original story better. We even refer to the novel as "canon" when trying to assess the probability of various assertions concerning Eli's nature, Oskar's, their relationship and anything that might have impacted them or it, however tangentially or at whatever order of remove.
Most people probably are fascinated by the story of Eli and Oskar, and not by the Blackeberg background in particular. Including me. This story is so "generic" it could work excellent in most settings, like an Ibsen play being totally independent of geographical setting.

Still the original story is strongly linked to Blackeberg and JAL's childhood - that's a fact. Micke, Jonny, Tomas and Johan are real persons, in their early forties by now. They might have read the book they are participating in, watched the film, and it cannot even be ruled out they are reading posts on this board (not that I believe it).
Now the film(s) is not the book, but in this case I feel the links to the original setting are so strong they deserve to be acknowledged. When lifting the story of Eli and Oskar out of the original setting, I feel some kind of excerption is made, even if the average johndoe reader/watcher don't care.
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
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jetboy
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Re: Eli Casting

Post by jetboy » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:33 pm

Well I can think of two reasons for Sweden being a good setting. Long nights and severe cold can create depression and people drinking alot, which is a big part of the story and long nights go well with vampirism and love.

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by withinfocus » Wed Oct 20, 2010 6:47 pm

jetboy wrote:Well I can think of two reasons for Sweden being a good setting. Long nights and severe cold can create depression and people drinking alot, which is a big part of the story and long nights go well with vampirism and love.
Not sure if you've ever been to New Mexico but the desert can provide that in a lot of ways. It's a pretty bleak state.

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by jetboy » Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:16 am

Ive lived in El Paso Tx for a good part of my youth and it wasnt bleak at all. Your not going to get cabin fever their and get drunk because its too dark or cold to do anything outside.

Los Alamos looked like a normal town and in LMI it might as well have been Los Angeles because kids get bullied everywhere. Picking Los Alamos just because it gets snow was just being respectful to the original story while LTROI used the darkness and cold and the snow that it brings as an intrical part of the story. The pure beauty of it, the red blood staining the pure white snow (which has meaning I think), the way it was used to contrast against the black of night (which also has meaning).

The visuals tell the story and are beautiful at the same time. The best example I can think of is when they show that plant budding in the heavy snow. It looks like a heart and it shows that something new and unusual is happening because plants need sun which is severely lacking during Swedens severe winters.

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by Hume » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:27 am

jetboy wrote:The visuals tell the story and are beautiful at the same time. The best example I can think of is when they show that plant budding in the heavy snow. It looks like a heart and it shows that something new and unusual is happening because plants need sun which is severely lacking during Swedens severe winters.
I really like this detail. We see the budding flowers right before Eli & Oscar's third meeting, the one where they tell each other their names and get to know each other better.
After Eli kills Lacke she has to leave. We are shown the plant again, but this time the flower buds are gone.

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Re: Eli Casting

Post by sauvin » Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:30 am

jetboy wrote:Well I can think of two reasons for Sweden being a good setting. Long nights and severe cold can create depression and people drinking alot, which is a big part of the story and long nights go well with vampirism and love.
I think I remember reading somewhere that suicide rates for the Scandinavian Peninsula tend to be rather high, and that the theory is that these people aren't getting enough sunlight. New Mexico's nights would be a tad shorter, I think, than those of my northern midwest state, and while the nights can get to be very long indeed, the days are still long enough that most people can get some exposure to daylight. I'm not sure this true when you're too close to the Arctic Circle.
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