Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

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Wolfchild
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by Wolfchild » Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:04 pm

Yes, that is a nice essay. The idea of uncrossed thresholds in LTROI is indeed intriguing territory. I wish she had pulled more specific examples from the film, but then I guess the essay was written before the DVD release. The DVD allowed me to re-watch the film film an untold number of times for, um... research. Yeah, research. ;)

Too bad there is no contact link for the author.
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

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a_contemplative_life
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by a_contemplative_life » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:13 pm

That was a nice review. One of the more thoughtful I've read.
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drakkar
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by drakkar » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:54 pm

Second that.
In fact your interpretation of the second meeting explains to me what I missed in the film: Eli almost attacking Oskar (stated in the book). So thanks!
In the egg puzzle scene, I also think that the revealed golden egg yolk is representing Eli's heart of gold -if still a rather violent one...
For the heart life is simple. It beats as long as it can.
- Karl Ove Knausgård

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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by a_contemplative_life » Sat Oct 10, 2009 2:48 am

drakkar wrote: In the egg puzzle scene, I also think that the revealed golden egg yolk is representing Eli's heart of gold -if still a rather violent one...
I like to think she has one--somewhere under there. :lol:
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by gattoparde59 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:51 pm

but then I guess the essay was written before the DVD release
Yes, Avedon most likely saw one, maybe two screenings, did not read the novel, and still came up with this very perceptive essay.

I found this by googling the term "liminal." If you look up the sociological definitions for "liminal" you will find that the term describes Eli perfectly.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

Nisa

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Wolfchild
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by Wolfchild » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:55 pm

gattoparde59 wrote:You need to put up some more "musings" on other topics, such as the images of blood in the film.
If you find something interesting there, why don't you bring it to light for us? :)
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

Visit My LTROI fan page.

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gattoparde59
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by gattoparde59 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:49 am

If you find something interesting there, why don't you bring it to light for us? :)
Bits and pieces, Sensai. :) I can only grasp small parts, and here you have put it all
together. I honestly don't know why I mentioned images of blood, but it might be of some
importance in a film about vampires.

I brooded on this for awhile, and I think I can fill in a gap in your tale where your write:
"Although Oskar cutting his hand is symbolic to Oskar, it does not seem to be visually
symbolic of any sort of contact or lack of contact." Here I must most humbly disagree with you Sensai. ;)

To sum up, you are saying that the tale told by hands show how the two children liberate
each other from their respective prisons. Besides being visually striking, blood can also be
seen as both a barrier and a portal, or a paradox if you will. For Eli, blood liberates with
supernatural power, and imprisons, alienating Eli from the rest of humanity. Someone noticed
at the end we see the bloody hands of Eli reaching down to free Oskar from his watery grave.
This is mirrored earlier in the tale when we see the bloody hand of Oskar begin to free Eli.
In the basement scene, when Oskar slits his hand and literally opens himself up to Eli the blood drips to the floor and becomes a barrier between Eli and Oskar.

Paradoxically, by opening himself up to Eli, Oskar has really opened up Eli and Oskar quite
literally sees an Eli he has not seen before. The blood in this scene becomes both barrier
and a portal. This scene, which looks quite painful, makes a visual link to the egg scene
and to Eli bleeding in Oskar's entry way. As you point out, Oskar's hands paradoxically
create a barrier (and express and unseen barrier) that gets Eli to open up.

Wow. It really all makes sense! I never would have understood any of this with out your tale told by hands, especially your reading of the egg.

I'll break open the story and tell you what is there. Then, like the others that have fallen out onto the sand, I will finish with it, and the wind will take it away.

Nisa

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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by a_contemplative_life » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:35 pm

gattoparde59 wrote:
If you find something interesting there, why don't you bring it to light for us? :)
Bits and pieces, Sensai. :) I can only grasp small parts, and here you have put it all
together. I honestly don't know why I mentioned images of blood, but it might be of some
importance in a film about vampires.

I brooded on this for awhile, and I think I can fill in a gap in your tale where your write:
"Although Oskar cutting his hand is symbolic to Oskar, it does not seem to be visually
symbolic of any sort of contact or lack of contact." Here I must most humbly disagree with you Sensai. ;)

To sum up, you are saying that the tale told by hands show how the two children liberate
each other from their respective prisons. Besides being visually striking, blood can also be
seen as both a barrier and a portal, or a paradox if you will. For Eli, blood liberates with
supernatural power, and imprisons, alienating Eli from the rest of humanity. Someone noticed
at the end we see the bloody hands of Eli reaching down to free Oskar from his watery grave.
This is mirrored earlier in the tale when we see the bloody hand of Oskar begin to free Eli.
In the basement scene, when Oskar slits his hand and literally opens himself up to Eli the blood drips to the floor and becomes a barrier between Eli and Oskar.

Paradoxically, by opening himself up to Eli, Oskar has really opened up Eli and Oskar quite
literally sees an Eli he has not seen before. The blood in this scene becomes both barrier
and a portal. This scene, which looks quite painful, makes a visual link to the egg scene
and to Eli bleeding in Oskar's entry way. As you point out, Oskar's hands paradoxically
create a barrier (and express and unseen barrier) that gets Eli to open up.

Wow. It really all makes sense! I never would have understood any of this with out your tale told by hands, especially your reading of the egg.
It also occurred to me that there were several scenes of importance with the two characters where Eli had blood on her face or mouth--e.g., the bedroom scene, the "be me a little" part, the kiss, and when she rescues him from the pool. In fact, it seems like the more their relationship deepens, the more there is (?)

Love is not a feeling. Love is put to the test, pain not.
One does not say: "That was not true pain, or it would
not have gone off so quickly."
-
- Ludwig Wittgenstein, 1889 – 1951
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Wolfchild
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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by Wolfchild » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:03 pm

gattoparde59 wrote:Someone noticed at the end we see the bloody hands of Eli reaching down to free Oskar from his watery grave.
is it bloody? From the DVD it just looks to me as though the palm of her hand is in shadow. Bloody you say. Hmm...

I have always seen Eli as a dual character. There is twelve year old child Eli and there is predator vampire Eli. Eli accepts that she is these two selves even though she abhors one of them and must keep it hidden most of the time. I always took Eli having blood on her face as showing that she wearing who she really is on her face. Neither the child nor the vampire are hidden. In the film the only person who she allows to see her with blood on her face is Oskar. (Arguably Lacke saw her this way when he kicked her off of Virginia, but Eli didn't purposely allow that.) The blood on her face is a visual indicator that she is willing to show her real self to Oskar.

This for me has pleasing implications for the "You must let me in" scene. During the "Be me a little" sequence Eli has blood on her face (her own). Now after Oskar has let her in, and presumably has been her a little, the next time we see her she has bathed and washed all of the blood away. She has shown Oskar who she is, he has let her in and accepted her, and now symbolically her vampire self has been washed away leaving only the happy twelve year old Eli (at least for a time).
...the story derives a lot of its appeal from its sense of despair and a darkness in which the love of Eli and Oskar seems to shine with a strange and disturbing light.
-Lacenaire

Visit My LTROI fan page.

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Re: Visual Theme of Hands and Barriers

Post by lombano » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:52 pm

EVERYBODY IS A BOOK OF BLOOD; WHEREVER WE'RE OPENED, WE'RE RED.

In the basement scene, Oskar is opening up to Eli in a very literal way, and we see it rather graphically. Oskar's contact with blood/blood being spilled in his presence always brings him deeper into Eli's world - he bleeds when whipped, which is the first time he resists the bullies and is also the prelude to the Morse code, and both the Morse code and resisting the bullies bring him closer to Eli. Then there's the basement scene, when his bleeding makes him see Eli as a vampire for the first time. Then the scene of Eli bleeding, with the whole 'be me a little' theme. Then there's the kissing scene. Last, there's the pool scene, after which he makes his choice to give up everything to be with Eli.

Wolfchild wrote:Now after Oskar has let her in, and presumably has been her a little, the next time we see her she has bathed and washed all of the blood away. She has shown Oskar who she is, he has let her in and accepted her, and now symbolically her vampire self has been washed away leaving only the happy twelve year old Eli (at least for a time).
Ironically enough, she ends up soon covered in blood again. Oskar refuses to let her in when she is disguised as a cute little girl, but he hugs and lets in the blood-drenched, dishevelled Eli of a few seconds later. Oskar prefers the horrific truth to conforting lies, which is ultimately what allows him to love and be loved by Eli.
Bli mig lite.

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