Could this scene be improved. Everywhere, save for a few and also the Swedes, think that Oskar's dad is gay.
Someone mentioned on IMDB this is poor directing. Could this be the case. Or as some of us, me included, think this is a cultural difference that lead to this misunderstanding of the scene.
This is, afterall, a very Swedish movie above all else.
The "gay" father scene
The "gay" father scene
Låt den rätte komma in in both its printed and celluloid form is a slow acting poison. You will be poisoned white. White from arsenic and innocence.
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
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gareth1971
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Re: The "gay" father scene
I will hold my hand up and say that upon first viewing, I did think that they were gay. Sorry, I just did.
I agree with genie47 though, that this is a cultural thing that passed me by, as I am from a Northern UK mining town, where drinking buddies don't plow through snow covered fields in flip flops to drink, they go on pub crawls, staggering out of one pub and falling into another, wearing as little clothes as possible, no matter what the weather, with about 20% of these looking for a fight (men and women).
It is only with repeated viewings, and reading here and IMDB, that I realised that the true meaning passed me by. I suppose that it's just too subtle for non Swedes to pick this up.
Didn't Tomas say in an interview that he was surprised that LTROI was successful Internationally?
I agree with genie47 though, that this is a cultural thing that passed me by, as I am from a Northern UK mining town, where drinking buddies don't plow through snow covered fields in flip flops to drink, they go on pub crawls, staggering out of one pub and falling into another, wearing as little clothes as possible, no matter what the weather, with about 20% of these looking for a fight (men and women).
It is only with repeated viewings, and reading here and IMDB, that I realised that the true meaning passed me by. I suppose that it's just too subtle for non Swedes to pick this up.
Didn't Tomas say in an interview that he was surprised that LTROI was successful Internationally?
Re: The "gay" father scene
He did say that the international success brought that "gay" feedback to him which surprised him.
I mean if you were to watch Singapore films, you might even think it is rude because macho men here curse each other's mothers as a greeting. I mean the old generation types, especially.
I mean if you were to watch Singapore films, you might even think it is rude because macho men here curse each other's mothers as a greeting. I mean the old generation types, especially.
Låt den rätte komma in in both its printed and celluloid form is a slow acting poison. You will be poisoned white. White from arsenic and innocence.
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
Re: The "gay" father scene
Well, here in south Germany (I'm Suevian) it's also quite common to greet each other with something like "Fuck you".
Att fly är livet, att dröja döden.
Do not ask why; ask why not.
Do not ask why; ask why not.
Re: The "gay" father scene
That is mild. The older generation of macho uncouthed men in my country starts like this.TAPETRVE wrote:Well, here in south Germany (I'm Suevian) it's also quite common to greet each other with something like "Fuck you".
"F*** your mother's dead c**t! Where have you been? Did some car crash onto you and you died and came back?"
"Well, f*** your mom's dead smelly c**t! I think a car would have slammed into you first before it did me, you smelly dick."
That is of course in a Chinese dialect translated to English.
What you is said is basically this. The first curse at the mom is basically saying hello. Then the car crash/accident is actually "Have you struck it big with the lottery?"
The reply is of course starts with the same hello and then a "polite" retort that he is should be more fortunate with the lottery compared to him.
I know it sounds weird to curse your friend's mom but may I remind you. Only very close friends say this.
Forgot to add. It is taboo to greet in this way when either's mom is around. Yes, it is a macho uncouthed man talk.
Sheesh! The things people say when they are overly friendly!
Låt den rätte komma in in both its printed and celluloid form is a slow acting poison. You will be poisoned white. White from arsenic and innocence.
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
Re: The "gay" father scene
Me too, although on the second viewing I'm prepared to accept that it was poor interpretation of the evidence.gareth1971 wrote:I will hold my hand up and say that upon first viewing, I did think that they were gay. Sorry, I just did.
You guys are so funny when it comes to greeting each other
It's quite different with women the accepted thing to do is compliment them on how good they look, or if they look particularly rough compliment them on something they're wearing and ask them how they are, followed by a hug if it's not contagious. Feel free to use any of the above if you want to make a good impression with a woman you like
Team Eli
Re: The "gay" father scene
Because I read the book first, I knew what the scene was all about but it did look like it conveyed that Oskar's dad was gay. My wife watching with me thinks the scene showed that the divorce took place because Oskar's dad was gay. Of course I corrected her.
As you can see, people outside of Sweden didn't get the source of Oskar's neglect was alcoholism.
As you can see, people outside of Sweden didn't get the source of Oskar's neglect was alcoholism.
Låt den rätte komma in in both its printed and celluloid form is a slow acting poison. You will be poisoned white. White from arsenic and innocence.
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
To love someone deeply gives you strength. Being loved by someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
Re: The "gay" father scene
The reason why I think so many see Oskar's father and the drinking buddy as gay are obviously the smiles and looks they give to eachother. In reality, his drinking buddy is only trying to insinuate "bring forth the bottle!" without saying anything. Oskar's father smiles back, as he knows exactly what he's thinking - and he likes drinking.
However, if you take a closer look at Oskar's father, he gives Oskar the same smile and look while they are playing connect 4 (at about 1:10:23 in the movie). That doesn't mean the father is a pedophile though.
I guess the scene could have been reworked a little bit, making the two men exchange less smiles and looks. But they still have to insinuate they want to drink, without actually speaking to eachother.
However, if you take a closer look at Oskar's father, he gives Oskar the same smile and look while they are playing connect 4 (at about 1:10:23 in the movie). That doesn't mean the father is a pedophile though.
I guess the scene could have been reworked a little bit, making the two men exchange less smiles and looks. But they still have to insinuate they want to drink, without actually speaking to eachother.
Re: The "gay" father scene
It's not only the smiles, they clearly show embarrassment towards Oskar's presence. They want him gone but they don't dare to brush him off.
Oh yeah, and welcome to the boards, btw .
Oh yeah, and welcome to the boards, btw
.Att fly är livet, att dröja döden.
Do not ask why; ask why not.
Do not ask why; ask why not.
Re: The "gay" father scene
(Thanks) Yeah, of course they're embarrassed by Oskar's presence. "Hrrm, shall we?" It's up to Oskar's father, after all, it's his boy who is visiting. It's absolute taboo to drink alcohol in front of children. I don't know about other countries, but it is in Sweden, since when Swedes drink, we usually get drunk. This was especially bad during the 80's as I see it. Every child absolutely detests to see their parents and role models get drunk, as it's scary and very uncomfortable for them to experience. And every grownup know this, as they have been children themselves.
This is where Swedes see them as alcoholics, while people of other nationalities may see their insinuating looks and awkwardness as gay. Perhaps people who have parents who are/ were drunks also see the love is towards the bottle in the cabinet and not about feeling eachother up.
If Alfredson should have changed anything for an international audience, it should probably have been to have less smiles in the scene when the two men exchanged looks, toned down the happiness and enhanced the awkwardness. A slight nod towards the cabinet from the drinking buddy would have been too obvious and too much, since he was not the one to decide if they should drink or not.
This is where Swedes see them as alcoholics, while people of other nationalities may see their insinuating looks and awkwardness as gay. Perhaps people who have parents who are/ were drunks also see the love is towards the bottle in the cabinet and not about feeling eachother up.
If Alfredson should have changed anything for an international audience, it should probably have been to have less smiles in the scene when the two men exchanged looks, toned down the happiness and enhanced the awkwardness. A slight nod towards the cabinet from the drinking buddy would have been too obvious and too much, since he was not the one to decide if they should drink or not.