Nature Scenes in LTROI-Significance & Interpretation

[lombano]

Apart from what has already been said, snow has sometimes been used as a symbol of purity - Hamlet's 'Be thou as chaste as ice, as pure as snow, thou shalt not escape calumny,' the filthy snow in Dostoyevski's Notes from Underground, Snow White, etc, no doubt because of the cleanliness of freshly fallen snow and the association of white with purity in the West. Conceivably one could interpret (though it's probably overthinking) that the snowfall before Eli's arrival hints at the new arrivals defiling Blackeberg (remember later the snow getting sullied with blood, both Jocke's and the kid in the woods') - possibly then the snowfall at the end symbolises a new or re-established purity/innocence (in the kids eloping).

I like this interpretation and I think it fits very well. Do you think it is undercut, at all, by JAL's views of Blackeberg as being a place without "spiritual roots" that has in some fundamental way, gone wrong even before Eli and Hakan arrive?

Not at all, because Blackeberg's lacking a past isn't really brought up in the film.

[Marlow]

I am looking forward to your observations.

I found the "Snowfall at Night" imagery one of the most difficult choices to interpret in LTROI. It is obviously important since it's included twice. It is also obviously sequentially important in that it forms two "bookends" to the film. That the "On the Train" follows this bookend certainly leads to much discussion as to the "reality" of the final scene.
My impressions of the "Snowfall at Night" scene were that the contrast between nothingness/death of the black screen with the movement/particulate existence of the falling snow lent itself to an existential or Zen-like interpretation.

How does this translate to what occurs in the film, in your view?

Well, let me apologize to you "a contemplative life" for forwarding observations prior to your completing yours. I should have waited.
Let me just forward a quick exposition. There is in the opening screen sequence a contrast offered by the director. The initial screenshot presents an unchanging, silent blackness. Then we have a fade-in to a ever-changing, falling snow coupled with sound. The initial screenshot may be interpreted as representing nothingness or a void or nonexistence or death. Then follows a gradually increasing awareness both visually and aurally . There is the absolute visual contrast of the falling snow, a lively white movement against the void. There is the absolute aural contrast; first, one of the subtlest sensations in nature, i.e. the sound of falling snow, then second, an awareness of a sound of human civilization, i.e. the train/subway station also having the implication of movement.
At the risk of being simplistic, this is a contrast between nothingness and being, death and life. My reference to Zen Buddhism is technically incorrect, but what I wanted to put forward is that the snow falling visual could represent the Eastern philosophical idea that everything we experience through our senses is constantly coming into existence and then ceasing to exist. The snow falling visual reminds me of Brownian motion, flux and change made apparent.
How does it translate into what occurs in the film? Well, my inclination is toward the "Oskar/subjective" interpretation of LTROI which leads to the strict distinction between sensation and non-sensation or the existence and non-existence of our main character and/or parts of his personality. Most don't like that interpretation so let me relate it to Eli as a character. Vampires are "undead." Eli is cursed with an unchanging existence. Oskar literally asks him if he's dead. He is incapable of change or regeneration. He is the "living dead." This is part of the horror of LTROI. The opening visual presents a symbolic contrast between life and death and Eli exists in a state that is neither one nor the other.
The recapitulation of the "Snowfall at Night" scene at the end of LTROI is different than it is in the beginning. In between the contrasting visuals of blackness and falling snow is a red hue. Blood in between death and life. The simple visual is open to a large number of interpretations depending on how you view the film and its characters. I'll save my specific observations until later.

[jetboy]

The snow in the beginning, to me, gave the movie an ominous feel. It gave the feeling of isolation. People dont go out as much when its night and even more when its night and snowing hard. This helped the movie twofold, it helped with the ominous, vampire part of the story but also helped with the love story in that they got to spend quality time together uninterrupted.

This point which you have raised (and as Sauvin has elaborated upon from his own personal experience) is, in my view, very important to the story. To illustrate, I don't think the film would be as effective if it were to take place, say, here:

AHHHHHH, MY EYES, IT BUUUURNS!!

The people in LTROI live in a place where they fundamentally need one another. Being unloved and alone is, in some fundamental sense, more risky in the harshness of a Scandinavian winter than it is in Palm Beach. You have much more to lose being a rejected outcast when there's no place of warmth to retreat to. Sure, you could tell an interesting love story in a tropical paradise, but the story just wouldn't be the same.

I doubt that considering we arent talking about homeless people. I think lonliness is just as bad in the sunny places. Actually it may be worse because youve got less of an excuse to be lonely and more examples of non lonliness to compare against. I love LTROI BECAUSE of the cold and BECAUSE of the night because it left these two individuals alone enough to truly discover each other.

[drakkar]

About the snowfall, I've come to agree with Intrige. The snow fall and the music creates a setting signalizing to me that something unexpected is about to happen. Which proved right .
I also wiew the snowfall as an eraser. In the beginning of the film foreshadowing that Oskar and Eli are about to have their present situations erased, and towards the end the reminder that now this has happened, marking a new beginning for them.

[a_contemplative_life]

I forgot to include this in my post about the Woods. This is a Google Earth image of the woods west of Vållingby, where Håkan may have stalked his first victim in the story. You can see the Råksta and Vällingby metro stops on the right.

[drakkar]

You can even see Eli, Oskar and Virginias homes, low right.

[metoo]

It's Vällingby, not Vållingby...

Nice that you tried getting it right, though!

[Marlow]

It's Vällingby, not Vållingby...

Nice that you tried getting it right, though!

The pronunciation of Vallingby by Oskar and his mom is one of the most "Swedish" sounding words in the film to my unaccustomed ear.
This is not meant to be insensitive, I have heard English described as the sound of "dogs barking or yapping" by native Chinese speakers.

I find language fascinating (espoeciallyin its grammatical construction) because of my interest in psychology. I find a great value in seeing language as the basis for human consciousness.

Perhaps a native Swedish speaker could explain why in the initial meeting between Oskar and Eli, Oskar says "inget" for the English word "nothing" and Eli says "nothing?" It makes me think of "nothung" or needful in German, but I know that can't be it.

[metoo]

Oskar says inget and Eli says ingenting. Both words mean "nothing", but the one cannot always replace the other.

Jag ser inget. I see nothing.
Jag ser ingenting. I see nothing.
Jag ser inget slott. I see no castle - here you cannot use "ingenting".

Inget is inflected according to grammatical gender and number:
Jag ser ingen boll. I see no ball.
Jag ser inga bollar. I see no balls.

Ingenting is actually a compound word: ingen + ting (no + thing), which explains why it cannot be used in the third example above.

[Marlow]

Thank you, "metoo." You are right, I misheard Eli. Connie said it much more clearly on the ice!
My confusion must be in the translation. The English subtitles have Eli and Oskar asking the same question, "What are you doing?" Obviously, that is not correct. It sounds like Eli asks that question and Oskar says something like, "How about you?" That aspect probably necessitates the two different endings to "inget."
If I need any more translation work may I call on your expertise?