Håkan and Eli’s Gender

[metoo]

Exactly. Haakan can refrain and survive. Eli cannot. Their beasts are different.

And similar. Neither Håkan nor Eli can get rid of their beast.

[PeteMork]

...he genuinely loves Eli and does have certain ideals. I do agree with the rest of what you said though.

He tried to bargain with Eli into submitting to him as a condition for going out for more food. In other words: he tried to starve a child into sexual submission to him.

But they both know she is fully capable of acquiring blood on her own. She just doesn't like to.

Hakan, can choose to act, or not to act, on his hormones. He can leave Eli. Wait til Eli goes to sleep and "run like the rising river in the spring."

Exactly. Haakan can refrain and survive. Eli cannot. Their beasts are different.

Hakan can choose to leave real children alone, and fantasize with his magazines. He probably can't choose to not be a pedophile.

Likewise, Eli could choose to acquire blood as she did with Tommy, thus surviving without killing. She generally doesn't. Isn't that a choice also?

EDIT: Sorry, Metoo. I didn't see your post before I posted mine.

[EEA]

There is also control.
Hakan can control his condition, and he chose the path with Eli. He has his fantasies, he can have some enjoyment from his beast.
Eli has no choice. And to her ending her life is not an option. She does not enjoy her condition. She has to continue with her life, since her will to live is more stronger.

[lombano]

...he genuinely loves Eli and does have certain ideals. I do agree with the rest of what you said though.

He tried to bargain with Eli into submitting to him as a condition for going out for more food. In other words: he tried to starve a child into sexual submission to him.

But they both know she is fully capable of acquiring blood on her own. She just doesn't like to.

Which is why the attempt fails. Nevertheless, the attempt is made. So much for all the preaching about love.

Hakan, can choose to act, or not to act, on his hormones. He can leave Eli. Wait til Eli goes to sleep and "run like the rising river in the spring."

Exactly. Haakan can refrain and survive. Eli cannot. Their beasts are different.

Hakan can choose to leave real children alone, and fantasize with his magazines. He probably can't choose to not be a pedophile.

Likewise, Eli could choose to acquire blood as she did with Tommy, thus surviving without killing. She generally doesn't. Isn't that a choice also?

Buying blood has all sorts of risks and problems. Haakan refraining is, in fact, pretty safe. Haakan can choose not to give in to the beast. Eli's only way of not giving in would be suicide.

[PeteMork]

Which is why the attempt fails. Nevertheless, the attempt is made. So much for all the preaching about love.

Agreed. Håkan is a deeply flawed lover.

Buying blood has all sorts of risks and problems. Haakan refraining is, in fact, pretty safe. Haakan can choose not to give in to the beast. Eli's only way of not giving in would be suicide.

I don't necessarily agree. The fact that JAL allows Eli to buy blood in the first place, and consume it the way she does in Tommy's case, makes it Canon that she doesn't have to kill to feed. Rather than buy blood, she could simply render her victims unconscious and just take what she needed. Without killing them.

[metoo]

The fact that JAL allows Eli to buy blood in the first place, and consume it the way she does in Tommy's case, makes it Canon that she doesn't have to kill to feed. Rather than buy blood, she could simply render her victims unconscious and just take what she needed. Without killing them.

This very much depends on what quantities Eli needs. To draw one liter of blood from an adult is not without risk for the donor. If Eli needs twice that amount, the donor might die. Additionally, the flow of blood from an arm artery would be much lower than from e.g. the neck, so the procedure would take longer time, and therefore potentially be a greater risk for Eli.

Anyway, in order to fulfill his role in the novel as a menace to society Eli would need to kill, thus we safely can assume that Eli does tell the truth: There is no other way. Any explanations about how Eli might be able to survive without killing therefore must be false.

[Ash]

I can see your point. Håkan's penis is practically a whole other character with its own subplots.

Well said!

I'm vaguely offended by this kind of thought.

In net objective effect, what truly is the difference between the beast that lived in Hakan's mind and the one that lives in Eli's heart?

I really don't think that Hakan was that interested in sex at all, although we are never told what Eli objected to him doing with her.

"Lie next to you? Touch you?"
"Yes."
"Can I. .." "No. Nothing more. But that. Yes."

I think Hakan defines what he feels about Eli in his observation-

"...two monumental bodies each came to an end in two index fingers that almost, but not quite touched. There was a space between them a millimeter or so wide. And in this space: life."

Hakan has his desire centred around an idolised yet unattainable vision of beauty as he sees it. And something he well knows he has no chance at all of possessing.
And perhaps the fact that he realises it is unattainable makes it more attractive to him. The little caresses and intimate moments with Eli seems to be enough to satisfy his needs.
In that sense both Hakan and Eli have needs that can never be fully satiated and brought to any conclusion, as they are attainable.
Although Hakan's desire is based around physicality, an image of physical perfection to Hakan's mind, what he actually desires is to cross that "millimetre of emptiness" between himself and Eli. He know he can never do that. But it's all about attempting the impossible that becomes a goal in itself to Hakan. Tilting at windmills like poor Oskar and dreaming the impossible to be possible.

[Jameron]

...he genuinely loves Eli and does have certain ideals. I do agree with the rest of what you said though.

He tried to bargain with Eli into submitting to him as a condition for going out for more food. In other words: he tried to starve a child into sexual submission to him.

That's like saying that the crew of the Nostromo hunted down and killed a child. Technically it's correct, but it misses out a whole load of context, and misrepresents the human's motivation.

.

[lombano]

Admittedly this child is no innocent, but nevetheless Haakan claims to love him, and tries to starve him into sexual submission.

[PeteMork]

The fact that JAL allows Eli to buy blood in the first place, and consume it the way she does in Tommy's case, makes it Canon that she doesn't have to kill to feed. Rather than buy blood, she could simply render her victims unconscious and just take what she needed. Without killing them.

This very much depends on what quantities Eli needs. To draw one liter of blood from an adult is not without risk for the donor. If Eli needs twice that amount, the donor might die. Additionally, the flow of blood from an arm artery would be much lower than from e.g. the neck, so the procedure would take longer time, and therefore potentially be a greater risk for Eli.

Anyway, in order to fulfill his role in the novel as a menace to society Eli would need to kill, thus we safely can assume that Eli does tell the truth: There is no other way. Any explanations about how Eli might be able to survive without killing therefore must be false.

I wouldn't put it quite that way. Eli herself tells Tommy how much she needs, and takes it. Granted, there is some risk involved, but we have to assume she knows what she's doing. Of course there could be other reasons Eli doesn't procure blood this way in addition to your examples: As small as she is, a direct attack to the jugular probably gives her a far better chance of success. And, In reality, knocking someone unconscious without killing them outright is much more difficult than one might think, action-adventure films notwithstanding. In other words, there may be no other sustainable way...at least in Eli's mind. (As you know, I prefer to think of JAL's universe as a real one; no magic involved. Any limitations as to Eli's feeding methods would therefore have logical rather than mystical origins.)

However, the point I was trying to make in this thread was that, even though Eli's beast is unrelenting and will not be denied, Eli, in her long life, has come up with ways to make limited choices regarding her victims, as imperfect as they may be. Both she and Håkan have choices in that regard. Unfortunately for Eli (and ourselves) her choices are more limited.